Las Vegas told to sober up, face its economic woes
Wednesday, Sept. 8, 2010 | 7:31 p.m.
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Las Vegas needs to get over its hangover and face its economic woes before casting blame and seeking any federal solution, according to a member of a commission studying the nation’s financial meltdown.
Bill Thomas, a former Republican U.S. representative from Bakersfield, called on Las Vegas to do a self-assessment and a better job of diversifying its tax base, planning its growth and fixing the state’s budget woes.
“The first step in sobering up is understanding,” said Thomas, a member of the Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission that held a hearing Wednesday at UNLV. “We are long overdue in getting that across all over the country.”
Thomas made his comments after colleague Heather Murren, co-founder of the Nevada Cancer Institute and wife of MGM Resorts International CEO Jim Murren, sought answers from a panelist about the impact of outside investors coming into Las Vegas and creating the housing bubble.
Thomas jokingly said that those like him who have followed Nevada long believed it was created by outside forces.
Thomas said Las Vegas has the ability to control its own destiny through planning and mentioned multi-billion-dollar resort projects such as Echelon and Fontainebleau that were halted before their completion.
Nevada, facing a $2.9 billion budget shortfall, has a tax system that invites growth from the outside without dealing with the consequences, he said.
“Are we coming to an agreement in Nevada that government basing its revenue on gambling is gambling?” Thomas said.
Thomas mentioned the “irrational housing bubble” driven by the building industry and people speculating on homes, and he again raised the issue of Nevada doing a self-assessment.
“We are looking at the national level to make sure it doesn’t happen again,” he said.
But to what extent have Nevadans “ changed tactics and accepted the responsibility. How are they going to realize that they are going to work their way out of this problem?” he said. “To what extent are you going to, by your own bootstraps, deal with this issue.”
Thomas said he doesn’t want to look back and complain, but Las Vegas needs to learn from its mistakes.
Business leaders and analysts who testified before commission members talked about how Las Vegas was overbuilt with not only single-family homes and condominiums and resorts but with office, retail and industrial buildings as well.
William Martin, vice chairman and chief executive officer of Service 1st Bank of Nevada, said the overdevelopment resulted from too much liquidity in the system. Banks and investors were flush with cash and needed to deploy it, he said.
“There was too much money chasing too few opportunities, and that historically leads to heightened risk-taking and a lessening of investment standards,” Martin said. “Those lessons are forgot in a time of great prosperity.”
“In the case of Nevada, those seeking high and quick returns poured into the state, allowing for a high level of speculative investment,” he said. “They thought 20 years of speculator growth was a predictor of greater things and profits to come. It created artificial demand.”
Steve Hill, former chairman of the Las Vegas Chamber of Commerce, said the one lesson the region can learn from the recession is that it might be wrong in its expectations about the economy.
“For 20 years, it was hard to be wrong in Las Vegas,” Hill said. “That was a period where we had profitability and growth and that certainly lulled us to sleep.”
Las Vegas isn’t going to be building new hotel rooms anytime soon, Hill said. The key to the region’s economic future is determining what three or four new industries it can attract that will drive growth.
During an interview afterward, Thomas said Nevada wants the country to see it as if it’s like any other state, but it doesn’t want to operate like other states.
He said the state is too preoccupied with growth and worrying about having another airport in the Ivanpah Valley only to bring in people to fill hotel rooms.
“So rooms drives the entire economy,” Thomas said. “At some point, if you have that focus, you will wind up with these bust projects, because the boom slows down or stops.”
In retrospect, no one could stop the growth train in Nevada, Thomas said. But if the state wants to moderate its growth, it shouldn’t have put a cap on property taxes, he said.
If the state doesn’t want developers to pay for highways and parks, that doesn’t lead to the kind of sustainable growth that is more appropriate, said Thomas, who jokingly conceded his comments don’t sound like they are coming from the Republican he is.
“Growth in and of itself may be good, but sustained growth is the best possible thing you can have,” Thomas said.
“If your resources are the gaming industry and tourism, don’t do things that jeopardize that in terms of not planning in a reasonable and responsible way to maintain that economic base, while at the same time you do everything you can to diversify,” he said.
Murren was reluctant to criticize her colleague’s statements in an interview afterward, and she acknowledged that people and businesses in Nevada were more optimistic about economic growth than they should have been.
One of the advantages of having a hearing in Las Vegas is that it allows outsiders to “see the substance” of the people are who live here, Murren said. She said Las Vegas has a perception of being a place of too much risk taking.
“I think to some extent we all need to share responsibility to have allowed this group euphoria to consume us.” Murren said. “But this is nationwide. I don’t think we are unique in that regard. I think there are other regions that have been just as badly affected, California and Florida among them. Look at Wall Street. The distinction is we were profoundly affected, but we have been dealing with our own consequences and actions. Back in New York City, the banks have been bailed out.”
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Damn.. who proofreads these articles????
First Sentence:
Las Vegas needs (to) get over its hangover and ....
I don't even want to read the rest of the article if the first sentence is THAT bad... maybe tomorrow, but not today.
The next Anasazi ruin.
I edited the article, theviolet41. My apologies for not catching the missing word, but it has been corrected. Thank you.
We need a state income tax in Nevada to pay for all of the services that the citizens are demanding.
Comment removed by staff.
Ok, so we had too much euphoria. And speculation was a key downfall and not thinking of the future. Too much money was wasted. Nevada needs to diversify jobs because of relying on Gaming. Nevada needs to have more planning in its development. Nothing mentioned about education to diversify. You mean to tell me the people in charge are now just seeing this? In the meantime, 238 homes are being built at Blue Diamond and the bottom of the housing market is not done yet. Speculators have bought homes with liens for HOAs and are fighting in the courts not to pay. More speculators are buying businesses that were individually owned and now placing them as station or satellites to the main corporation that is in another state or country probably firing or laying off people. And we're like other states? Who said Las Vegas is told to sober up and face its woes? Looks to me we're in denial and even the people telling us we need to smarten up, cannot even see the next mess coming. Dear God help us.
It's so true. Drive up to Gibson Road on Horizon Ridge in Henderson. Empty unfinished buildings, Vantage Lofts abandoned, subdivisions that were allowed to tear the ground up, and then flee without any responsibility of any kind, with piles of solid waste that have been left there for many years.
Why? No planning of any kind. Just build, build, build. No zoning laws, no guarantees that approved projects will ever be completed. Why? To keep the Unionized City building loafers working. Because the City Councils never cared about passing laws to control growth. Period.
Now that we've destroyed the base of Black Mountain, is anyone to blame? No, we have the same Union loafers and the same City Council boobs all saying "It wasn't me, I just wanted my paycheck". So true. Complain about California all you want, but there are reasons for controls on construction. Too late here.
@Quoyn and ned -
The Vegas valley is screwed. "Diversify"? To what? Who would want to come here (for anything other than the casino schtick)? We are totally unsustainable. Everything -- EVERYTHING (including employees outside of gaming) -- has to be brought in by truck, air, rail, or pipeline (water is next). Our workforce is woefully inept for anything outside the traditional niches and their service ancillaries.
There are no proximate natural resources. Absent gaming this place would be Barstow II. Maybe, generously, 50,000 population if you count in the military and DOE. But, not 40 TIMES that number.
Lake Mead is now at about 42% of capacity and dropping steadily for more than a decade, down 123 vertical feet since Jan 2000. The new state flag is an office park banner saying "Space Available."
I don't take any pleasure in such observations. I've been here 18 years, own a house here.
My grandson went to Henderson International. They folded this spring. Luckily for him, he got a full-ride to Windermere in Orlando FL.
The next Anasazi ruin.
Dinah Titus proposed growth limits like Portland and other communities, but no one wanted any part of it. Developers did all the "planning" and spread their money amongst our leaders. No pushback, just stuff houses into the valley like an overloaded fishbowl.
It's a hoot to hear Thomas telling us to sober up, when he pushed the Bush tax cuts and Phil Gramm's seminal banking deregulation (which started the whole banking frenzy leading to collapse... along with Democrats like Clinton). But he is right about diversification, and tax reform.
The Nevada/Angle dream; homesteading on your silver mine at the end of a dirt road, letting out-of-staters pay your taxes for you.
Those "Vantage Lofts" on Horizon Ridge and Gibson are ridiculous. The project looks to be about 2/3's finished, and is completely abandoned with a fence around it. I guess the views are nice from one side of the project, but who was going to live in there? I just don't get why something like that was even built in that location? Hopefully it will be finished or just torn down. It is quite the eyesore for Henderson residents.
I took some photos of another abandoned construction site in MacDonald Ranch. Graded home sites and millions of dollars of equipment just left behind... Nice.
http://jimmyhoofa-lv.blogspot.com/2010/0...
You must be joking, California handing out advise in how to manage a State, all I can say is run. They destroyed a once great State and turned it into a crime ridden punch line.
BobbyG: you might be right. I am personnally unemployed and 57. I still have my home thanks to bankruptcy but still have to deal with HOA problems. Harry Reid is bringing some jobs here but they are for the future and Vegas will servive. But, its not going to be like the past. Will I servive? well, if I get somekind of job for now I might make it. If Vegas gets its education system up to give training in new green and tech jobs. It will make it. If not, the speculators win again. I hope I get out intacted with something before that happens. And the future of Vegas may not be for me. I maybe too old. Also we are like Hawaii but on desert land. The desert is the ocean and we do ship in everything including skilled labor. It's tuff but can be done. As for water, if they do ship it, it maybe the end of Vegas. Far too expensive even for the big boys on the strip. Like I said, God help us.
Quoyn520
Will you servive? No, especially if you do not learn how to spell.
Certainly there is a need to see past the bloated egos, economy, and greed that made the area and especially the gaming, construction, and real estate industries so blindly and temporarily fat and happy. Those industries and others, as well as the local and state government did nothing to plan for, save, and invest in the future, knowing that the bubble would have to pop sooner or later. They can all choke on their hubris as far as I'm concerned. I'll continue to work in a more logical and sustainable industry and if forced to will just eventually get the hell out of dodge.
maybe weed out the govt corruption and all the juiced in cowboys and things can start to get better. goodolboy network no longer works.
olbuddy: you're right. My spelling is lousy. I have not been to school in a long time. Willing to go back if I see something that can work and if they'll have me. And you are right. I believe in a logical approach but logic and Las Vegas don't seem to work together. Like the tech university, they should build it but will they? I am concern. I am one of the low educated. And I won't be able to collect social security for years. And I have nowhere to go. I know I am not alone. Like I said God help us get through this mess. But, will this city come out wiser and plan? That is a true question. I saw a homeless couple with 3 dogs yesterday. They didn't belong on the streets. They were together people. How many like that now? Never saw that before yesterday in my life. Seen many homeless in my day. Been there myself for 2years about 30years ago. When the middle class is homeless. That's real scary.
Chunky says:
Like a human the economy and the people got fat, happy and overindulged with a lot of mistakes made.
Now is the time where everything and everyone has to lose the fat, trim the budgets and get lean, mean and competitive again.
Regardless of what the politicians do and despite our own ignorance the economy will eventually cycle back up. Maybe not to the levels of greed we had three years ago right away but that too will return when everyone forgets the pain of this cycle.
That is what Chunky thinks!
California is 30 BILLION in the red. And who's fault is that. PS. You people still handing out IOU'S
I am afraid Bill Thomas is correct. Further, reality is that start ups are what cause job creation. In the past if we needed new jobs we opened a new casino. That dog don't hunt no more. The article below has some nifty graphs showing that it is start ups that create the jobs -
http://www.investorsinsight.com/blogs/th...
So here are ten ideas for those looking for ideas -
1. For profit schools attracting international students.
2. Training programs that attract technical people (they pay a lot of money).
3. Medical tourism. There is no reason things like LASIK would not work in the PH mall, maybe people could use their rewards points.
4. A full fledged medical school and teaching hospital (maybe China wouldn't mind having a medical school in Las Vegas).
5. Light manufacturing.
6. Attracting businesses from Mexico for distribution (of course, Boulder City doesn't want the traffic). Actually more distribution business whereever it is headquartered is good.
7. Attract more Internet businesses (we have done well with Zappos and Expedia, and make sure we have the educational infrastructure to support more of this).
8. More permanent display space - a permanent auto show on the strip, and industrial display space much like the design center.
9. Buy out parts of the Singapore Expo and plant it on some of the empty space on the strip.
10. Create entertainment start ups that create travelling shows, export shows, and provide unique cruise ship experiences. I also think the 70's show Godspell would do really well on the strip these days.
Well...you got to start somewhere. Good luck everyone. The bottom line is that if there are no new businesses, there will be no new jobs. My sincere appreciation for those that have created new businesses in Las Vegas.
Power those were my thoughts exactly. Like I need some jackass from Bakersfield(aren't they just a poor mans Fresno(which is a poorer mans San Fransico)) telling me that I need to nut up and take some responsibility? Correct me if I'm wrong but Nevada hasn't been angling for a bailout from the Feds. To be honest this whole article smacks of propaganda for the 2012 legislative whine over repealing the property tax cap, higher corporate or gross receipts taxes, and the real possibility of a personal income tax. Now, know this folks, if they implement a personal income tax it wont be to alleviate the tax payers from the current high fees we pay at every turn it will be in addition too.
Don't get me wrong I absolutely believe we need to diversify our industry base here in So. Nevada but the only way that will ever happen is through a more educated populace. UNLV recently showed its true colors when they made some choices about degrees offered. Informatics the blending of industry specific business management to IT was slashed and burned while they kept that ol' stand by Art History.
We hear about progressive technology like a Maglev between LA and Vegas for 30+ years and every time the subject comes up everyone cries about cost and any thing else that pops into their head to keep it from ever happening. Citizens point at the failure of the monorail as a prime example of why the maglev wouldn't work. I say, technophobes pull your heads out and realize that monorail could be the biggest boon to the Strip if it was connected to the airport( like it should have been from the start).
My UNLV Informatics 2010 graduate is trying to decide which of three job offers to take for his first job all of which are in the $45-55K per year range(it took me a hellva long time and many jobs to get to that pay scale). We need to start to look to the future, future construction, future technology, future transportation, and future education to grow our way back to the top in this country. All of that will take more money and intestinal fortitude then Nevadas current tax structures are able to deliver. Paid toadys for the gaming industry need to step to the plate right along with the rest of the corporations pulling billions out of Nevada yearly. You want to see growth in tax coffers, bump the gaming tax to 10-12%, want some relief from this building fiasco implement a building cap like Boulder City has had for decades, implement a gross receipts tax for businesses with more then 100 employees. Then get out of the taxpayers pocket at every turn for the following 25 years and watch it grow.
Vegas_Is_Crap is back again, spouting his anonymous hate and misinformation. It's not 100 degrees here everyday. Are you mentally incompetent? Or deliberately ignorant?
BobbyG is back with his oh-so-clever "Anasazi ruin" schtick. Eighteen years you've been here? Since 1992? Then you, sir, are part of the problem. You are part of the wave of those who fled somewhere else only to try to change Las Vegas to reflect the place you left. Pack up, head out, and leave Vegas to us Anasazis.
We're not going to take lessons from Kalifornication. We don't believe in tax and spend. We don't want the government to tell us how to live. We're not concerned about a few unfinished buildings. Why? Because we believe in the freedom and power of the market and the mind, not the artificial, ivory tower interference of so-called "planning."
Vegas is proving that natural law prevails. All you quitters, haters, and failures that are dying on the vine, kindly move on. We did fine before you arrived, and we'll be better after you've gone. All you are doing is getting in the way of those of us who actually participate in life here.
we moved here more then a year ago from new york. Nevada has one of the best things going. people are going to complain when they dont know any different. move if you dont like it here. state tax is not the answer. where do you think it comes from? try living with 10-20% less every pay check; so you can pay for someone to be on welfare and their kids can rob you when your 70.
I have been in las vegas for 8 years. Moved here from LA. I cook at 2 casinos on the strip and prior 2 2008 everything was great for me. Then the lay-offs came. I went from permanent fry cook positions at 2 casinos to #18 and #31 on the lay-off board. But I'm not going anywhere. I'm hanging on by a thread but I'm still hanging. I get maybe a 2 days a month from each property so unemployment is my lifeline. But I keep pounding the pavement going to every job fair and sending my resume to every cook opening I see on craigslist. I feel terrible for many of my friends who have lost their homes and the only reason Im still in mine is because I'm renting out 2 rooms. I go on the strip with an ice chest full of bottle waters and sell them to make a buck. whatever it takes to feed my family. I REFUSE TO GIVE UP!
PS. Bugsey did not pick the was not middle of the desert because it looked liked a good place to build homes, good schools and community programs.
The 2010 Inc. 5000 top ten states are:
Ohio 186
Pennsylvania 187
Massachusettes 188
Georgia 194
Illinois 222
Florida 262
Virginia 293
New York 313
Texas 404
California 684
Funny how most of the Inc 5000 companies start and stay in high tax environments.
Funny how Nevada still believes businesses are just dying "make the move".
A country that makes nothing- has nothing.
A state that makes nothing - has nothing.
A city that makes nothing- has nothing.
We had better start making something of value or we won't have anything at all.
This article is 100% right. Las Vegas cannot survive on casinos and the Strip alone. With more and more places looking to legalize gambling for economic benefit, Las Vegas will continue to see a decline.
Vegas is a great city in a great location. People complain about the desert, but we need to get out to people and business that it is lower risk. We don't have hurricanes, tornadoes, mudslides, large fires, a lot of flooding, snow, or any other huge natural disaster. In trade, we get a hot summer.
It's time to get the ball rolling with bringing diverse business to the valley. Let's look at medical research and clean factories. With all of the out of work blue collar workers here, we need blue collar jobs. We have a lot of open land that would be perfect for things like factories and warehouses. We need to do something that will allow us to sustain ourselves without having to worry about tourism and gaming. While this was built as a gaming town, I don't want to see it die because it refused to look at other options.
the boom years was growth to support the growth and the bust years is contraction to support contraction.
when someone leaves town, that's one less customer for the sandwich place down the street, and when they lose 20 customers, they don't need 3 people working the counter at lunch time, so they go down to 2 people, so the person they let go moves out of town and then that's one less customer for the chinese place and that pattern repeats itself over and over again.
The feds gave Detroit $50 billion without thought and yet they are suddenly budget hawks when Nevada asks for $3 billion.
I asked the bureaucrat why I needed to go through all the red tape to start a business and was told it's to weed out scammers from California. I provide a service. If customers don't like my work I starve. That I have to submit to endless bureaucrats paperwork make work bull.... makes this place "new business unfriendly. You want to cut taxes, get rid of all the state bureaucrat checkers. Get rid of all the stupid screening. I can't believe I need a "Sheriff's card to work. Why can't the employer determine who works. Sheriff's cards are police state stuff. Murdering random citizens with an okay from the bureaucrats is also police state stuff. Save money, get rid of the police check on employment.
Nevada is not business friendly and the cops are running amok.
'The Vegas valley is screwed.'
Bobby G, I said, "Las Vegas is toast." (in 2003)
I warned everyone, I knew to bail (from their homes) in 2005-6.
And I'm not even an "insider."
You don't want to know what I'm saying now. (in 2010)
Ah Bugsy did not pick Las Vegas to build a casino. He muscled Billy Wilkerson out of the way who was a already building the Flamingo.
Greed. Pure and simple. State , county and local governments with hands out, no enforcement of codes, assessors owned by builders and real estate,
corrupt politicians, it is the perfect storm which brought Nevada to its knees, and it hasn't stopped storming yet, because not much has changed.
Vegas is lucky that the Chinese love to gamble. They already bought a small hotel off the Strip earlier this summer, the hotels on the Strip are next!
I did'nt know Las Vegas was an alcoholic!
This once great town, and I use the name town on purpose here, because Las Vegas should never have grown further than where we were at in 1993. I knew that a severe burst was coming for this town. The answer is simple, the corporate takeover of Las Vegas destroyed this place! pure and simple!
Uck, nednougat, I was with you about the total lack of planning, until you had to blame it on unions. Has nothing to do with greedy fat cats and their support from incompetent and totally corrupt political officials, right?
architect, I do want to know what you're saying now.
@RPJ -
I'm "part of the problem"? Spare me, bro'. That is juvie weak. I moved here in 1992 support of my wife's transfer to be the quality assurance manager for the environmental cleanup program at the Nevada Test Site. I love it here, I am no "hater," just a concerned realist. BTW, I am a co-founder and past President of the Nevada Quality Alliance (which administers the state-level Baldrige quality award program), and served as Chairman of the ASQ Las Vegas Section. I got my graduate degree at UNLV, and then taught for a number of years at both CSN and UNLV, and I served on a UNLV technical panel assessing the Yucca Mountain Project Environmental Impact Statement for the Clark County Risk Management dept. I am also a volunteer with The Caring Place cancer support center.
I've been a contributing member of the community ever since I got here. I "actively participate." I now work here as a medical information technology workflow redesign consultant with the federal Regional Extension Center helping physicians convert to electronic health record systems, to help improve the quality of health care here. Part of that work includes my service as the "workforce development" lead for my agency in conjunction with CSN, the Southern Nevada Medical Industry Coalition, and Nevada Workforce Connections, to help train our health care workforce for the skills of the future. Our first SCN courses ensue at the end of this month
So, spare me your scolding. Why don't you dazzle us with a recounting of all YOUR magnanimous contributions to Nevada.
Again, I take no pleasure in the woes of our valley.
had to be a republican talking like that.
Detroit got a huge handout with no questions asked.Nevada needs a little help and a bunch of government know it alls think they know all the answers.
The people need there own committee to look into government corruption and misuse of tax moneys.
Mr. Thomas sounds pretty smart on monday morning but was he preaching the same sermon on friday?
Or was he buying into the housing market in Vegas?
Do you still remember those days, when consensus said, that gaming in LV especially strip will be invulnerable to economic downturn, because those high-rollers will keep coming.
dodgerchuck: no accually bobbyG is pretty liberal. If Yucca Mtn would turn into recycling and not just storage, I would strongly consider it; despite the dangers. viyer00: you asked why $50b was given to Michagan and when Nevada wanted $3b we got flack. Simple, we are not skilled in tech manufacturing jobs. That is Nevada state gov't fault. Michagan is and has the votes to help elect. Also, understand something else important. DC does not think like NV nor any other western state. Once crossing the MS river, thought changes. Most western states do not have the electorial votes for federal executives to consider us important to them. ONLY CA & TX have these votes. Therefore we have to fight for federal dollars. Harry Reid fights. Sharron Angle says she won't. Ensign's troubles shows he can't. Rory Reid will work with his father and fight. What will Sandavol do or did? Mostly stuck with republican Gibbons who did nothing. Did Sandavol do anything for us in getting federal dollars for help? Will he NOW?
To POWERPLAY: California is $30 billion in the red with a population of 37 million and one of the largest and most diverse economies in the world. Nevada is $3 billion in the red with a population of 2.6 million. We have a bunch of casinos and a couple of mines. Who has the bigger problem? You do the math.
ElJeffe: Art history is important, as is informatics. Art history, however, is not being duplicated through the efforts of other departments, namely MIS and computer science. An MIS degree would have served your student just as well, and there is more than enough room for additional MIS students at UNLV. I don't agree with some of the decisions made at UNLV when it comes to cutting programs (I would have kept informatics despite the redundancy), but the bigger issue is that the cuts are being made in the first place.
RPJ says "All you quitters, haters, and failures that are dying on the vine, kindly move on." I am. I'm not quitting on Vegas, however. Vegas is quitting on me. I'm taking my doctorate and my 30 years of experience in the hospitality industry to another state to teach at one of their universities. I would have loved to have stayed at UNLV. The hotel college has a number of openings on their faculty, but they can't fill them. Professors are taking course overloads, classes that once capped at thirty students now contain sixty, and students can't graduate because the classes they need either have too few sections or are now offered only once per year, but the college can't hire to fill any of their many vacancies. So tell me RPJ, am I a quitter, a hater, or a failure?
"We need a state income tax in Nevada to pay for all of the services that the citizens are demanding."
Hey great idea! Then Nevada can be just as financially strong as California and New York...........ooooops.
Liberals do not understand economics, period.
Agreed, we have problems. With Senator Reid being the Majority leader, Nevada has a chance of getting that money. But, if CA yells loud enough, they'll get it. Why? because they have alot more electorial votes in Congress and is a blue state. Who's in power? the blue. If Angle was there, CA wouldn't need to ask. They'd just give it to CA. If NV understands how DC thinks, then NV will get alot more help. If NV thinks like NV, forget the help. This is one of the main reasons we need Senator Reid whether you like him or not.
I'm from the Detroit area. I visit LV on a regular basis. I have several friends who live in the LV area. I have read every comment here today. There are a couple of points to address. First, The Auto industry got loans from our Government, and has paid them back with interest. Also the Fed. Gov. now owns two thirds of GM. When Gm issues their IPO the Fed will get the rest of their money back, and then some. Next, if you don't make anything then you've got nothing. This is so true. Nevada needs more than just personel(sp) service providers. In the last thirty years our national manufacturing base has gone from 30% of gdp to just 7% of gdp. With 80% of this being Military. With this decline the Middle Class has declined from over 70% of our population to under 50%. Greed sent the majority of our mfg. to Mexico, China etc. When the U.S. and Nevada begin to make something again, then and only then will we begin to flourish again. Oh yes I'll be in LV in a couple of weeks, and I sincerly hope that the money I spend will keep someone employed for a week or two.
Detroit got the bailout because they have a manufacturing base....they produce something. What does Vegas/Nevada produce? Certainly we don't have top schools in anything, no mfg base, no industry other than gambling and mining. Sorry folks but if you think the Government is going to help us out you better be prepared to hang on until 2012. The guy at the top doesn't think this town is worthy. We're on our own and we better start acting like it.
I agree with Informant23 and matadams4u. However, everybody is forgetting about the other VERY LARGE economic engines of Southern Nevada: Nellis Air Force Base and Nevada National Security Site. I am active duty military stationed at Nellis and have been off and on for 11 years. Along with the other green industries which starting up here, there are many government projects starting here on this base and on the NNSS. I don't understand whu industries don't build more around this! There are many smaller cities whose economy is totally dependent on military bases. Yet here in Las Vegas not only is gambling the top industry, Nellis Air Force Base is a close second! We need to take advantage of Air Force's expansion here. Does anybody here realize how quickly Creech Air Force Base in Indian Springs has grown in the last 5 years?
Bottom line is this: Southern Nevada has so many options to grow economically and diversify its economy IF it takes advantage of them the right way....IS ANYBODY IN A DECISION MAKING POSITION LISTENING TO NOT ONLY WHAT I SAY BUT TO EVERYBODY ELSE WITH GREAT IDEAS ON HERE?
@BobbyG: I have a been an active contributing member of Southern Nevada ever since I transferred here. However, I cannot understand why you left out the importance of the Nevada Test Site and the entire Nellis/Creech complex since you are so familiar with it.
BobbyG - We are totally unsustainable. How so true is this! Everybody wake up! This place is a desert.... It's all about WATER! This place will be the next re-make of the Mad Max movie - in a few short years. You don't need a politician or the wife of some big shot running a company to figure out and tell you whats wrong.
As for Heather Murren, co-founder of the Nevada Cancer Institute and wife of MGM Resorts International CEO Jim Murren. Maybe she should ask her husband how he's going to get MGM Resorts out of the 13 billion debt it has... maybe issue some more stock - push the debt to shareholders - MGM has grown too BIG too fast.. plain and simple. Liquidate some assets.
Las Vegas itself has done the same thing - grown too BIG and too fast.
What don't we all get here??? We know what the problem and issues are.
@Scotty-Boy. Desalination plants are being built as we speak which will provide water from the Pacific Ocean for Las Vegas.
Nevada is seriously lacking leadership at all levels. Many continue to blame Reid at the federal level, but barely a whisper about our governor, lt. governor, mayors, and city and county managers, all paid 6 figures a year.
Many studies paid for by the legislature (and others) have all pointed to the same problem, starting with the Zubrow report in 1960. Instead of forming another "task force", as what lt. governor Krolicki did this year after three years in office, we need these so-called "leaders" to buck the special interests and face down the "boogeyman" (taxes).
Matadams4u's list is an excellent starting point for actually trying to diversify our economy. As green617 says, "we are on our own and better start acting like it."
Ernieb1202 accurately points out our current position: we provide services -- we don't make anything. Moving towards making things can't happen overnight. We need to draw our own road map from here to "there" which may not be one place. Ernieb1202's Detroit was cars, but we've lived and continue to live through the aftermath of an economy dedicated to just one thing. Let's look at The top 5 items on matadams4u's list are:
1. For profit schools attracting international students. This may require a reputation to attract international students. We have right here, right now, a school with a great reputation that lots of international students would pay top dollar to get a degree from -- the School of Hotel Management at UNLV. The University Administration and its Board of Regents could probably change any necessary administrative restrictions to opening up registration and raising fees tomorrow. Does anyone know of any laws that would need to be changed to allow the School to re-orient itself towards educating non-Nevadans and charging them higher fees for it? Is there enough funding for the U.S. State Department so that visa clearances be done in time? (The visa problem is one that drives away foreign visitors who would otherwise flock here for what are bargains (to them) for hotels, meals, and shows. So the quickest fix of all for our economic malaise could be something as simple as increasing funding for the State Department.
2. Technical training programs. We have convention space and hotel rooms. Do we have people already here now who are technical gurus people would want to learn from? perhaps some retired gurus?
3. Medical tourism. There are two potential starting points already established here: The Nevada Cancer Institute and the Cleveland Clinic. However non-regulation has led to a bad reputation for Nevada health care. We export more patients than we import. Regulation chaps Nevadans' hides, but unless we do enough of it to limit the spread of preventable infections and enable health care providers to have functioning equipment so that proper diagnoses can be made, this will be swimming against the tide.
4. A full-fledged medical school and teaching hospital. See 3 above. There is a desperate need everywhere for primary care doctors. Clark County has enough people so that medical students could see pretty much everything here. But we would be spending money before we would see any increase in enrollment, and there is no assurance that there will be enough students who can pay tuition. How can we expand the medical school and Clark County Hospital in a climate in which half the state's budget needs to be cut to get it into some sort of balance?
5. Light manufacturing. The things made have to have short production runs, and not be worth air transport but too valuable or time-sensitive to wait for a slow boat from China or India. Long production runs get made on dedicated production equipment. Stuff that is highly valuable can be made cheaper elsewhere and flown in. Cheap things that aren't time sensitive can be made cheaper elsewhere and shipped via sea. I keep thinking "food." We have all these celebrity chefs, food comes in here every day from everywhere, and the trucks go back to their food distribution facilities empty. Suppose they took back celebrity chef meals? It seems to me that a frozen Burger Bar burger has got to taste better than what is now available.
We DO have another choice this election.
1) Promote New Business Startups
2) Promote hiring people off of unemployment and welfare
3) Legalize Marijuana (saves money and generates revenue)
4) Full Rights for all adults over 18 years old ($1,000,000,000+)
5) Using Thorium Technology at Yucca Mountain (we get our land back, electricity, manufacturing, jobs, and make the world a safer place)
6) Get our teachers out from under "No Child Left Behind"
and a lot more...
Vote smART!
Arthur Forest Lampitt, Jr.
Libertarian Candidate for Governor of Nevada
www.ArtForGov.com
detroit has water and decent soil.what does vegas have? i live in reno.the something for nothing economy is gone for good. vegas will not re-invent itself since what we are talking about is much greater than the economy.its the ecology that is a much bigger problem:water,food,peak oil.fantasies like vegas only worked in a time of growth/speculation. should be an "interesting" place to watch unfold.at least reno has a river running through it.good luck vegas
Las Vegas is SIN city. The rest of it is the rantings of college brainwashed zombies. Last thing we need is more of this moronic sprawl mentality which these people call "growth". Look around, do we need more of this?
Vegas needs to get online in a big-time way. When we do this whining about money will fade faster than Wayne Newton's career.
It is absolutely ridiculous Antigua is eating our lunch. It is beyond comprehension a local cannot bet horse-racing from their couch. This is beyond stupid it tells me there are forces working to kill Las Vegas is what it tells me.
On the tax thing, I would just suggest that if there are going to be changes, someone try to figure out how to do a little better financial planning as part of it. And if they are shooting for a more stable funding from taxes, then adding more taxes mean lowering taxes that are under-yielding now. If you don't do that, then when we get back to a better situation, those taxes that are currently under-performing will pour forth money and the government will rush out to increase spending and then when the next recession comes, we'll once again be asking where to raise taxes to pay for the shortfall. The problem is that the most stable places to get taxes are considered to hit the poor harder. It ends up being a tough nut to crack given the way that government works (or doesn't work). As for an income tax, like any tax, it will never be as small as people pitch it to be. Just slapping another tax on somewhere is a band-aid at best and not a long term fix.
Hey JohnF: Nevada is not in the red' We are solvent right now' We just won't raise taxes to pay for what we cannot afford today.
ElJeffe says:
"Power those were my thoughts exactly. Like I need some jackass from Bakersfield(aren't they just a poor mans Fresno(which is a poorer mans San Fransico)) telling me that I need to nut up and take some responsibility?"
You guys in Las Vegas might respect Bakersfield a little more if you knew how much money we spend over there. I personally know a dozen people who have made the trip in the past couple weeks. When income was better, I visited several times a year. (for Nascar, Freedom Concert, ACM awards or just to go have fun and do some shopping and gambling for a few days).
Thanks to Bill Thomas, we are getting better roads to make the trip on next time we go. Bill Thomas represented us well during his term in the State Assembly and in Congress. I consider him a great friend!
Bakersfield's economy is much like Vegas (without the gambling). High unemployment, hot summers. Overloaded with foreclosures, real estate values down over 50%, partially built, abandoned developments (high end, low end and commercial), poorly conceived "publicly funded" housing projects that went bust, etc., etc. Buck Owens eveen did a song or 2 about each of these towns.
We may be a "poor man's Fresno" to some, but we kind of like it like that. It keeps the San Francisco and L.A. Rif Raf (Snobs) out.
Think of us as a "Rich man's Barstow"!
To inprove the states economy the State of Nevada should be looking at the way the casinos are managed in Nevada. The Nevada Gaming Board has turned a blind eye on the way they are managed. By the Gaming Board not requiring a certain percentage of payout that is reasonable they have killed the Goose that layed the Golden Egg. In visting with manangement at the Casinos in Mesquite, Nevada I was told the slot machine are set to pay out from one to ten percent payout with the majority of the slot machines set at one percent. This means if you play ten thousend dollar in a slot machine the over all payout is one hundred dollars. Nevada Gaming Board does not consider playing the slot machines gambling. Nevada Gaming says the slots machines are purely entainment. So with this kind of payout their is no real reason why a person would come to a casino in Nevada when almost all the states have casinos. People can take the money they save on airfares and gas and spend at their own state casinos and still be ahead. Until people likes the Greg Lees who's family own the Eureka Casino in Mesquite, Nevada understand this the casinos business will never come back. The only people that are reaping the million of dollar taken in by caisnos are the owners and upper management.
Way to go Bobby G!
I certainly am sick of hearing from people who say," We lived here all our life, and no one elses opinion matters" etc etc.
My husband and I moved there in 2006, both professionals, both made great money, active in our community and paid our taxes. We loved living in Henderson, and when we bought our house, we bought within our means in an older neighborhood. We didn't take out 2nd and 3rd mortgages, we didn't drive fancy cars, and tried very hard to keep a positive attitude about what was happening.
What we saw after we moved to Vegas was a total disregard for the local citizens and families that live and work there. When the strip casinos starting losing customers, we tried to give them our business. We were treated like second class citizens. They decided they would instead cater to the 20 somethings that acted like idiots, drunk and disorderly, causing fights and puking on the casino floors when the clubs kicked them out. They deserve to lose their profits, they did it to themselves.
I personally wrote to the LVCVA with my observations and suggestions to help bring back local customers, and tourists other than college frat boys and strippers from out of town. I was basically told, " sorry but we don't give a sh-- about locals or for families as tourists."
So we took our money elsewhere, as well as our taxes, moved to a state that is much better off economically, and gives a darn about their citizens, not just the tourists. And guess what? It was the best thing we ever did!!! But we didn't want to leave, we loved Las Vegas when we first moved there, so since we only lived there for a couple of years, we can't speak our minds about whats going on there? Our opinion doesn't count? Give me a break! I saw more there in the 3 years we were there than I care to remember.
So RPJ....you just keep telling all the hardworking, decent people that live in Vegas, whether they just moved there, or have been there for awhile, to shut up leave because they complain about the current status of the state. The only way that town will ever make a come back is when the citizens say enough is enough, speak up and demand change. Silence is not golden during this economic crisis.
Here is a simpler solution,
admit we are broke
admit we spend a billion dollars yearly OVER and ABOVE what the private sector gets because we have allowed wh0re polititians to sell us out and give Cadillac compensation to public unions.
FILE bankruptcy, cancel all jobs, canel all contracts, start over AT THE PRIVATE SECTOR RATE
cnev: there more to this than just "greed."
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ohcalcutagirl: there is no "starting over." You've got what you've got. There is only changing direction of thought and regrouping.
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rwal2222: Others were caught up in delusions of grandeur. Your delusions are simply of a different nature.
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ArtForGov: Though I think you are an innocent, all that you are proposing is a change of the guard.
A "new elite" is not the answer. Take a closer look at the "operating systems"...not the individual people and the political parties.
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Noindex: The concept of "economics" is flawed at the foundation level. No one understands economics, because there is nothing there to understand.
Even recessions and depressions are only words.
What is happening now is a compilation of 5,000 years of "commerce" and its destructive illusions.
Modern politics has only further regressed social and intellectual evolution.
Technology has only exacerbated the damage and quickened the pace. We can destroy more...more efficiently.
.........This is merely ENDGAME...Sorry.
I agree that most of you are right. Las Vegas 9 has the right consept in my opinion and yet again it is the military that will get Las Vegas mess which is federal dollars in green projects. We need these. Then it can change to civilian. Also, most concepts are going to the new health care program that is called Obamacare and placing new jobs in research and care. That is in the future, it is not now. The casino industries went to Macaou and did not stay here to help us. Now they are paying a price. The Chinese want it back. Rumors are they raised the taxes to 22% on American businesses there and they are not doing as well as before. Dubai has Wynn's and maybe others(not sure of others) and 40% of the income goes there. Only here are the taxes low for them and they want more from here because it is easier to get more money here then from other countries. They need to come home and show they are Americans and not worshiping only their corporate stuctures.
Bobby G, I said, "Las Vegas is toast." (in 2003)
I warned everyone, I knew to bail (from their homes) in 2005-6.
And I'm not even an "insider."
You don't want to know what I'm saying now. (in 2010)
By architect
Sept. 9, 2010
4:25 a.m.
========Please - what are you saying now.in 2010. tk u
gbigs: if your statement saying that the graduates of UNLV medical are not staying here. WHY? If this is true, is it because we do not have enough start up jobs for them? Is it because the base jobs are low and the cost of living is better somewhere else? Is it because Las Vegas students are not educated enough and inspired enough to go to college let alone medical school? Is it because there isn't enough money for LV students to go to med school? It's expensive to go to med school as well as just UNLV. Is it because UNLV likes out of state and out of country students more because they can pay more and have no room for LV students? What are the reasons for this problem? If there are free-bees, what are the free-bees and who is getting them? How much are they getting? Just saying millions is not enough.
Wages vs cost of living. If wages are low and the cost of living is high. They won't stay
What is the demographs of the population? If it is not in their age braket, they won't stay
Weather can be managed if a family has a village that supports each other and Nevada doesn't support, they won't stay
Again if the demographs are not compatitable with their ways, they won't stay
They want to live in large cities because there is more of a support system and more entertainment than gambling, or they won't stay
So, what is some solutions that can help for the young and educated to stay and for others that are young and/or educated to stay. What has to change?What needs to be given up? What needs to come in?
I'm just amazed by all the haters. Especially BobbyG. He knew all along what was going to happen. Even a broken watch is right sometime. And since you haven't been here that long you don't remember the late 70's and early 80's when we had a bad downturn then. Really if you are that down on Vegas then please move people.
Will people move away, sure. Will growth be slower, yep but that's not a bad thing necessarily. We need a breather from the breakneck growth we had. It'll be kinda nice not to have to build dozens of schools in a year and not have to build miles of roads and infrastructure.
A buddy and I started a business in 2008 and now we have 40 employees. It sucks right now for a lot of people but in the longterm Vegas will be all right.