1 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 NATIONAL PRISON RAPE ELIMINATION COMMISSION 9 10 PUBLIC HEARING 11 U.S. FEDERAL DISTRICT COURTHOUSE 12 FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF LOUISIANA NEW ORLEANS, LOUISIANA 13 DECEMBER 5, 2006 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 2 1 A P P E A R A N C E S 2 3 Vice-Chair John A. Kaneb 4 Commissioner Jamie Fellner 5 Commissioner Pat Nolan 6 Commissioner James E. Aiken 7 Commissioner Gustavus A. Puryear, IV 8 Commissioner Brenda V. Smith 9 Commissioner Cindy Struckman-Johnson 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 3 1 INDEX 2 PAGE 3 Appearances................... 2 4 OPENING REMARKS 5 Charles C. Foti............. 8 6 James Carter................ 20 7 Major Marty Dufrene......... 24 8 PERSONAL ACCOUNTS 9 Sandi Matheson.............. 40 10 Gina Womack................. 48 11 Norris Henderson............ 57 12 RESPONSE and TREATMENT: CARING FOR SEXUAL ASSAULT VICTIMS IN CORRECTIONAL 13 AND DETENTION FACILITIES 14 Robert B. Greifinger......... 94 15 Jim DeGroot.................. 99 16 Jennifer Pierce-Weeks........ 123 17 Lannette Linthicum........... 136 18 Ben Raimer................... 154 19 CONFIDENTIALITY AND REPORTING: MEDICAL ETHICS, VICTIM SAFETY, AND 20 FACILITY SECURITY 21 Mike Puisis................... 181 22 Art Beeler.................... 201 23 Wendy Still................... 224 24 Lynn Sander................... 253 25 Carrie Hill................... 263 Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 4 1 PAGE 2 SEXUAL VIOLENCE AND COMMUNITY CORRECTIONS: THE SPECIAL 3 CONSIDERATIONS OF COMMUNITY-BASED SETTINGS 4 5 Carrie Abner................... 286 6 Thomas Beauclair............... 301 7 Denise Robinson................ 309 8 Barbara Broderick.............. 319 9 BEST PRACTICES AND EMERGING TRENDS: THE COMMUNITY CORRECTIONS FIELD'S 10 RESPONSE TO THE PRISON RAPE ELIMINATION ACT 11 12 Anadora Moss.................... 346 13 Antonio Booker.................. 364 14 Jacqueline Kotkin............... 379 15 Eugenie Powers.................. 400 16 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE............ 427 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 5 1 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 2 Good morning. I am John 3 Kaneb, vice president of the National 4 Prison Rape Elimination. I am chairing 5 today's hearing in the absence of 6 Federal Judge Reggie Walton, our 7 chairman, who was required to go to 8 Washington because of a potential 9 injury to his wife in an auto accident. 10 He is unclear actually what injury may 11 have occurred, but he has had to leave. 12 And I am, of course, a substitute. 13 Judge Walton is a federal 14 judge, esteemed federal judge, and used 15 to conducting in all kinds of judicial 16 proceedings. I have never been to law 17 school let alone be put on the bench. 18 And I'm going to do the best I can for 19 you, with the able help of our general 20 counsel, Margaret Chiara to my left. 21 So if I do something a little strange, 22 please bear with me. Just a bit about 23 the Commission. 24 The National Prison Rape 25 Elimination Commission was established Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 6 1 by Congress, and it is charged with a 2 simple but very, very difficult to 3 execute purpose. And that is to 4 determine the prevalence of sexual 5 abuse in prisons of the United States 6 and to develop standards, that is, 7 mandatory behavior, as to how things 8 are to be done. And what we mean by 9 that in this context, is to develop 10 standards that will prevent, detect, 11 prosecute or punish, and remediate 12 sexual abuse that does occur. 13 The standards that we 14 develop will be mandatory requirements 15 of all federal detention systems, from 16 high security to temporary lockups. 17 They will deal with how to prevent 18 prison sexual abuse. It is hoped and 19 expected that these standards will 20 become the models by which state, 21 county, municipal systems also prevent 22 sexual abuse. And that will be 23 accomplished by good example, 24 persuasion, and financial incentives. 25 I'd like to begin by, first Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 7 1 of all, thanking two eminent jurists. 2 Chief Judge Helen Ginger Berrigan and 3 Judge Ivan L.R. Lemelle for providing 4 this courthouse -- this elegant 5 courtroom for our proceeding. I also 6 thank -- I didn't do that. I'm going 7 to continue, and let's see what 8 happens. 9 I also want to thank the 10 clerk of the court, Loretta White and 11 her staff for making these two days 12 possible, and I know they're going to 13 work smoothly. And I want to thank all 14 the above for saving the Commission 15 money. If this elegant facility were 16 not available, we would have to rent 17 something, and that would cost the U.S. 18 Government money that is now not going 19 to cost. 20 The Commission is made up of 21 eight citizens. I'm going to leave 22 introductions to the Commissioners that 23 are here be done by themselves. And I 24 will now introduce Senior Staff. 25 Richard Hoffman is our executive Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 8 1 director; Jenny Trovillion, our chief 2 of staff; and to my left, as I said, 3 Margaret Chiara, our general counsel. 4 We have with us today three 5 distinguished guests. They are 6 Louisiana Attorney General, Charles 7 Foti; New Orleans City Council, James 8 Carter, who is also chair of the 9 Criminal Justice Committee of New 10 Orleans Government; and Major Marty 11 Dufrene, Corrections Department Head of 12 Lafourche Parish Sheriff's Office. 13 I will begin with Attorney 14 General Foti. 15 MR. FOTI: 16 Thank you very much for 17 having me here today on behalf of our 18 governor, our legislature, and the 19 people of the State of Louisiana. We 20 welcome you to our city and our state. 21 I appreciate the -- the time and energy 22 that this Commission has put into the 23 elimination and prevention of prison 24 rapes. 25 In another life I was Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 9 1 sheriff in the City of New Orleans for 2 the last 30 years. And during that 3 time, we listened to what you had come 4 up with. We have seen these actions 5 happen. It is a very stringent duty 6 that people who run jails, prisons, 7 lockups, have care, custody, control of 8 inmates. And the elimination of prison 9 rapes is vital to the rehabilitation 10 effort to running a safe and secure 11 prison and returning those people back 12 to society better able to participate 13 in legal activities. 14 What happens when you have a 15 rape in prison? And in, generally 16 speaking, the weakest suffers. People 17 that don't fit in have certain 18 characteristics that the other groups 19 may not think is desirable. You 20 suffer -- not only does the individual 21 suffer potential long-term social, 22 medical, and psychological 23 disadvantages, but his or her ability 24 to become rehabilitated is -- is 25 severely -- the policy of this Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 10 1 Commission is to eliminate prison 2 rapes. To identify eliminate is to 3 have a zero tolerance on a national 4 level and the protection of our 5 constitutional rights, not only of each 6 and every citizen but to aid better the 7 constitutional rights of the inmate is 8 paramount to success. If this is not 9 done, you will see a constant 10 deterioration in our prison systems. 11 I'm happy that you are 12 looking at both the medical and 13 psychological advantages that should be 14 used most on the identification, the 15 training, the care, and the aftercare 16 to help these people recover from this 17 very devastating social act. 18 Sometimes we think it -- 19 that prison rapes is just in prison. 20 But if you look in today's society, if 21 you look at the sexual predators that 22 are out there that are on the Internet 23 that are preying on the children, and 24 you see the response that the general 25 community has against this type of Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 11 1 activity, we should have a similar type 2 of response to the sexual predators -- 3 predators that are in prison. And not 4 only do we have a problem with inmate 5 on inmate rape or harassment, but we 6 have some problems in staff having the 7 same type of problems in dealing -- we 8 have a problem with the same type of 9 problems with the staff sometimes in 10 either sexual harassment or so-called 11 sexual -- consensual sex where the -- 12 unfortunately, the other person has no 13 right and no ability to have consensual 14 sex. 15 I think, as I've read 16 through the materials, both as sheriff 17 and A.G., that we have programs out 18 there that are eliminating, or helping 19 to eliminate, and identifying the 20 problems, meeting the problems, and 21 being able to be replicated in various 22 jurisdictions across the state. San 23 Francisco had one for a number of 24 years. The sheriff's office has a 25 very, very good program. Alabama has a Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 12 1 couple of programs. 2 We are here to say that we 3 fully support your endeavors in this 4 instance, and we will do everything in 5 our power to see that not only the 6 National Attorney General Association, 7 the National Sheriff's Association, and 8 the National Chief of Police and the 9 ACA work with you and work with various 10 jurisdictions to come up with a good 11 set of models rules and regulations 12 that would be applied not only on a 13 national level but on a state and local 14 level. I think that the idea of 15 financial -- finances to help them with 16 training, help them with 17 identification, and help them to have 18 the resources to meet this problem, it 19 will go a long way to helping you 20 eliminate this type of -- this type of 21 problem. 22 For the audience, this is 23 not a new problem. If you go back to 24 1826, when it first was published, 25 where the Boston Disciplinary Society Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 13 1 said that these problems were existing 2 in jails and prisons at that time, and 3 still doing it now. It wasn't until 4 2003 that Congress really took -- after 5 much pressure, and have to look at this 6 and establish this Commission. And we 7 are happy to work with you for the zero 8 tolerance of prison rapes and for the 9 rehabilitation, not only of those who 10 have suffered because of rapes, but for 11 the rehabilitation of all the inmates 12 that are going into our prisons and 13 lockups in our country. 14 I'll be happy to answer any 15 questions you have. 16 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 17 Well, thank you General 18 Foti. Speaking for myself, I am most 19 heartened to learn of, first of all, 20 your experience and, more importantly, 21 your knowledge and, most importantly, 22 your commitment to help eliminate this 23 scourge. It reminds me that one of our 24 co-sponsors of this legislation, 25 Senator Jeff Sessions of Alabama, was, Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 14 1 in fact, as you know, Attorney General 2 of the state. And at our first 3 Washington hearing, he said very 4 plainly, look, I -- I was the chief law 5 enforcement officer of the State of 6 Alabama, but -- I understand that this 7 work needs to be done and that nobody 8 should be sentenced to time in prison 9 plus torture. And he -- he's one of 10 our great supporters. And obviously, 11 you come right along with the same 12 experience and -- and I'm so pleased to 13 hear of your support. 14 And you're, obviously, quite 15 right. The -- the myth that inmate on 16 inmate sex in prison is -- is largely 17 consensual is just nothing more than a 18 myth in our view. And thank you for 19 acknowledging that. The last I'll say 20 is that, as a native of Boston, I did 21 not realize that our city first 22 recorded this rape problem in 1826. 23 You've added to my historical knowledge 24 on the matter, so thank you very much. 25 I'll ask the panelist, whom Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 15 1 I have failed to introduced to you -- 2 my first mistake. Starting with Brenda 3 Smith here -- I'm sorry, Cindy 4 Struckman-Johnson, on the far left. 5 And I'll introduce them after we 6 finish. 7 COMMISSIONER STRUCKMAN-JOHNSON: 8 Good morning. My name is 9 Cindy Struckman-Johnson. I'm a 10 professor of psychology at the 11 University of South Dakota. I'm glad 12 to be here. We had a snowstorm that 13 way, too. And it's wonderful seeing 14 plain ground here. I -- I'm chosen 15 for commission, appointed by Congress, 16 on the basis of having done a fair 17 amount of research on the prevalence 18 and the dynamics of sexual assaults in 19 prisons. 20 COMMISSIONER SMITH: 21 Good morning. My name is 22 Brenda Smith. I'm a professor at 23 American University Washington College 24 of Law. I'm also the project director 25 for the NSC project on addressing Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 16 1 prison rape. I'm glad to be here this 2 morning. 3 COMMISSIONER PURYEAR: 4 I'm Gust Puryear, the 5 General Counsel of Corrections 6 Corporation of America. And I'm also 7 very glad to be here. I appreciate 8 your hospitality in the city. 9 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 10 Jim. 11 COMMISSIONER AIKEN: 12 Good morning, my name is 13 James Aiken. I'm currently president 14 of James Aiken & Associates, a 15 correctional consulting firm, and I 16 have been in the profession for, 17 approximately, 35 years. 18 COMMISSIONER FELLNER: 19 Good morning. I'm Jamie 20 Fellner. I'm with the U.S. Program of 21 Human Rights Watch, which has been 22 working on various human rights abuses 23 in the United States for many years 24 now, including prison rape. 25 COMMISSIONER NOLAN: Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 17 1 I'm Pat Nolan, vice 2 President of Prison Fellowship, 3 administrator of prisoners and their 4 families. Prior to this, I was a 5 member of the legislature in California 6 for 15 years, and then a prisoner (sic) 7 in a federal prison for two years. I'm 8 glad to be here, too. 9 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 10 And as I said, I'm John 11 Kaneb. I'm in private business in 12 Boston, so. 13 As to my colleagues, are 14 there -- are there questions of -- of 15 General Foti here? 16 Yes, Brenda. 17 COMMISSIONER SMITH: 18 Attorney General Foti, 19 given, you know, your role as the 20 chief, I guess, law enforcement officer 21 for the state in some ways. I wonder 22 if I can get you to talk a little bit 23 about the prospects for prosecution of 24 these kinds of cases. Because 25 certainly, one of the things that we've Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 18 1 heard in all of our hearings, is that 2 it is often difficult to prosecute 3 cases of inmate on inmate sexual 4 violence as well as staff on inmate 5 sexual violence. 6 MR. FOTI: 7 I think one of the key 8 is -- is dealing with the deputies and 9 guards or the correctional officials to 10 identify and treat as the prime site, 11 to develop and get adequate statements 12 of it to -- to treat as any other rape, 13 where you bring it down, you save the 14 clothing, you do the test necessary. 15 And if you treat it in that way and 16 present it to the prosecution in that 17 way, the way you have identified your 18 problem or cause, then you -- you have 19 gone a long way to going forward. And 20 then, once you have one success, there 21 is always a difficulty, because, when 22 you look at the people that may be 23 testifying, and who may give a 24 statement at one time and not testify 25 at a later time. So as you develop Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 19 1 that, the idea that you will prosecute 2 to the full extent of the law, it will 3 become easier and easier. But I think 4 that the -- it is the training, 5 initially, of men and women in the 6 correctional system that are able to 7 take adequate statements, understand 8 the gravity of the situation, are able 9 to talk to the person and get the true 10 facts of what happened, to preserve the 11 evidence and to treat -- and treat 12 the -- where it occurred. In most 13 instances, if you look at some of it, 14 it occurs in a cell or in the dormitory 15 or in a common area. And show that the 16 institutional staff takes it as a 17 serious matter, that they have zero 18 tolerance. I guess you go back to some 19 ways people say it. This is my house, 20 and you're not going to do this in 21 my -- in my house. 22 COMMISSIONER SMITH: 23 Thank you. 24 MR. FOTI: 25 And we will be happy to work Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 20 1 with you to develop training programs. 2 And we'll be happy to have Louisiana 3 serve as a model to attempt to 4 eliminate this -- we give you the our 5 pledge of cooperation, not only from 6 myself, but from my state. 7 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 8 General Foti, thank you so 9 much for coming. Thank you for the 10 content of what you said. And we will 11 take this up with your office. Thank 12 you. 13 MR. FOTI: 14 Thank you. 15 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 16 Councilman Carter, please. 17 MR. CARTER: 18 Thank you. Good morning. 19 On behalf of the Criminal Justice 20 Committee of the New Orleans City 21 Council and the full council, I would 22 like to welcome the National Prison 23 Rape Elimination Commission hearing 24 here in New Orleans. Thank you for 25 extending this honor on us. And before Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 21 1 I go any further, I want to make sure 2 that you spend a lot of money in the 3 French Quarter. It's the part of my 4 district. 5 I'd also like to, before I 6 proceed, recognize Norris Henderson of 7 Safe Streets/Strong Communities, who's 8 in the audience, who has done a great 9 advocate of this type of zero tolerance 10 policy. So thank you very much, 11 Norris, for being here. 12 Most citizens prefer not to 13 think of our prisons or about what 14 happens in them. Correctional 15 institutions are a part of our civic 16 infrastructure. But because they are 17 not visible parts of our cities 18 generally, for the most part, we choose 19 to pretend that they are not there. If 20 you ask 100 people on the streets to 21 list the elements of their community's 22 civic infrastructure, it will be 23 hardpressed to find anybody mention 24 local jails or prisons. However, in 25 many of our communities, prisons have Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 22 1 become dominant institutions, and in 2 some sense, the dominate institution. 3 But as I mean in certain small and 4 localized areas in our neighborhoods, 5 there is more money spent on 6 incarcerating individuals than spent on 7 civic infrastructure or other very 8 needed items in our community. 9 In 2000, more than two 10 million people are incarcerated in the 11 United States, and more prisoners 12 return to their communities. And most 13 prisoners return to their communities. 14 In fact, every year thousands of 15 inmates return to their neighborhoods. 16 In effect, in many of our 17 cities there is a continuous migration 18 pattern between our neighborhoods and 19 our correctional institutions. Why is 20 this significant? Because it means 21 that what happens in our correctional 22 institutions is extremely important, 23 not only for the individuals who we 24 incarcerate, but also for the health of 25 our social infrastructure and our Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 23 1 entire society. 2 Incarcerated individuals 3 have the right to be protected from 4 sexual assaults, and their communities 5 have the right to expect ex-offenders 6 to return to them without the added 7 burden of experiencing sexual violence 8 while incarcerated. 9 For this reason, the Prison 10 Rape Elimination Act of 2003 and the 11 work of this Commission, established by 12 Congress to study federal, state, and 13 local government policy and practices 14 related to sexual assaults in 15 corrections and detention facilities, 16 is critical to our social and civic 17 structures. Research undertaken and 18 sponsored by the National Institute of 19 Justice in response to the National 20 Prison Rape Elimination Act will be of 21 mention to our understanding of this 22 issue. Only sound research will 23 provide us with empirical data we need 24 to enable us to change prison culture, 25 the policies to reduce sexual violence Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 24 1 in prisons. 2 In the Commission's zero 3 tolerance standard, sets the only 4 appropriate goal regarding sexual 5 violence in correctional detention 6 facilities. 7 You all are a doing very 8 important work. And as a citizen and 9 as a civic leader, I would like to 10 thank you. And again, thank you for 11 coming down to New Orleans and having 12 this most organized event. Thank you 13 very much. 14 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 15 Thank you Councilman Carter. 16 I will ask to defer 17 questions for the moment. We'll go on 18 to Major Dufrene, and then questions -- 19 any of the panelist, okay? 20 Major Dufrene. 21 MAJOR DUFRENE: 22 Thank you. I'm Major Marty 23 Dufrene, Corrections Department Head of 24 the Lafourche Parish Sheriff's Office. 25 I've been asked by the National Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 25 1 Sheriff's Association and Fred Wilson, 2 who is the division director of 3 operations and support, and NSA 4 president, Lafourche Parish sheriff, 5 Greg Webber, my sheriff, to convey the 6 appreciation and the support of the 7 PREA Commission. And as Attorney 8 General Foti said, they are committed 9 to you and will help in any way 10 possible. 11 Thank you for inviting me to 12 represent a voice for a small facility 13 responsible to house offenders. Part 14 of what I was asked to talk about today 15 was the relationship of the mental and 16 medical help that is available to 17 inmates. And, of course, if a sexual 18 assault were to occur in -- in prison, 19 then this would be needed after the 20 fact. My comments today will be 21 directed towards that ever increasing 22 medical and mental healthcare needs to 23 offenders in the difficult and small 24 facilities in providing those needs. 25 The parish county government is usually Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 26 1 responsible for providing financial 2 resources to contract medical and 3 mental help professionals to attend to 4 offenders incarcerated within their 5 jurisdiction. However, budgetary 6 restraints and lack of space often 7 restrict comprehensive healthcare from 8 on-site availability, and offenders 9 must be transported to healthcare 10 facilities nearby. This is the case in 11 Lafourche Parish Detention Center and 12 other small jails. We're without the 13 resources to expand or rebuild to meet 14 the needs of offenders coming in with 15 pre-existing medical and mental health 16 problems. 17 More often than not, 18 incarceration may only exacerbate the 19 condition of offenders with medical or 20 mental health problems, and in 21 particular, offenders with mental 22 health issues, which I'll term MHI 23 offenders. Jail staff and medics must 24 be vigilant when medication distributes 25 to ensure the offender ingest Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 27 1 medication and they're not hoarding, 2 trading or destroying them. 3 MHI offenders often exhibit 4 a wide variety of behavior. An 5 individual may be extremely violent or 6 they may be apathetic. In these cases, 7 an MHI offender must be isolated to 8 prevent them from harming themselves or 9 others. Other offenders may target 10 them as an easy mark to exploit 11 commissary items from them or inflict 12 physical harm, including sexual 13 assault. 14 Frequently, MHI offenders 15 are arrested for a crime which may be 16 attributed to their mental health 17 issues and they become stuck in the 18 system. While incarcerated, they are 19 unable to receive the treatment they 20 need and tend to acquire additional 21 charges resulting from their violent 22 behavior. MHI offenders are often -- 23 are unable to satisfy their court 24 obligations due to mental incompetence, 25 and unable to enter a mental health Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 28 1 facility due to criminal charges and 2 the availability of bed space, thus 3 creating a merry-go-round of obscure 4 options or opportunities to exit the 5 criminal justice system and into mental 6 healthcare. 7 A case in point was a 8 30-year-old female we had arrested for 9 a hit-and-run. After a couple of days 10 of incarceration, there was -- no one 11 in the jail was aware she had a mental 12 health problem until the female 13 escalated from compliant behavior to 14 extreme rage and combativeness. She 15 struck and scratched a correctional 16 officers while they tried to subdue 17 her. She was transported to the local 18 hospital's mental health section and 19 was placed on medication, which helped 20 her. At some point she stopped taking 21 the medication and began disrobing and 22 crawling around her cell on all fours. 23 At times, she was discovered nude lying 24 in a fetal position under her bunk. 25 This type of behavior makes Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 29 1 her disposable to verbal, mental, or 2 sexual abuse from other offenders. 3 Employees sat with her and tried to 4 coax her to eat her food and take 5 medicine. Repeated overnight visits to 6 the hospital did not help. Medical -- 7 her condition deteriorated and she was 8 transported to the regional -- Facility 9 Regional Medical Center for emergency 10 observation. The hospital kept her, 11 provided her nutrition intravenously. 12 My staff and I worked with 13 the District Attorney's Office, the 14 judge, and the Regional Mental Health 15 System to place her in a facility that 16 is best suited to attend her needs. We 17 were able to locate three potential 18 placements. I called a facility to 19 obtain a timeline to transfer, when I 20 was informed that she was 171st on the 21 waiting list. Already in disbelief, I 22 was then informed that this facility 23 only had 16 beds. So you can imagine 24 how long of a time we're waiting here. 25 The other potential placements were Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 30 1 much the same. The demand for mental 2 healthcare and bed space far exceeds 3 the available supply, especially since 4 Hurricane Katrina and Rita. 5 Although we take preventive 6 measures to avert prison sexual assault 7 by installing cameras, physically 8 making rounds, and training 9 correctional officers, we recognize 10 sexual assaults may still occur. Most 11 offenders may be able to defend 12 themselves from sexual assault, or at 13 least report an incident, if it were to 14 occur. However, we need a more 15 concerted effort to help those who may 16 not be able to defend themselves or may 17 not be able to be -- or not competent 18 enough to report an incident of abuse. 19 The mental health system 20 must be drastically overhauled to meet 21 the needs of the civilian population as 22 well as the offender population. 23 Correctional facilities will continue 24 to be an entry point for offenders with 25 mental health issues; therefore, Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 31 1 correctional facilities must receive 2 assistance and funding to provide 3 adequate holding areas, mental health 4 services, and appropriate training for 5 jail staff. 6 Thank you. 7 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 8 Thank you, Major Dufrene. 9 The panel, questions? 10 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 11 Yes, Jamie. 12 COMMISSIONER FELLNER: 13 I have a question both for 14 Councilman Carter and for Mr. Dufrene. 15 Louisiana has an extremely 16 high rate of incarceration nationwide, 17 and that includes many who are low 18 level offenders, not violent offenders, 19 and many people who are in prison, in 20 the criminal justice system, primarily 21 because of their mental health needs, 22 as you have so eloquently noted. 23 And I'm wondering as we 24 wrestle with what can be done from 25 inside the prison walls to reduce Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 32 1 prison rape, whether you think maybe 2 the first step has to be to try and 3 limit the number of people who are 4 going into prison in the first place. 5 And whether -- maybe we need to be 6 thinking about, is the first step 7 forward in reducing prison rape is 8 reducing the number of people behind 9 bars and making sure that prisons are 10 only used for those who truly do pose a 11 threat to community safety that cannot 12 be handled any way other than through 13 incarceration. 14 I'd be interested in your 15 thoughts. 16 MR. CARTER: 17 That's a great question. A 18 great question. Thank you for asking. 19 In January of this year, the 20 City Council of New Orleans, through 21 our Criminal Justice Committee, engaged 22 in best practices research with the 23 various institute for justice out of 24 New York. And out of that assessment, 25 we have come to certain conclusions Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 33 1 about our rate of incarceration, over 2 incarceration, and so on. And out of 3 that report came four basic 4 recommendations. One is alternative 5 incarceration to provide these areas 6 alternatives of incarceration. Two, to 7 deal with early assessment programs 8 with regard to the -- the case 9 assessments that we have to also deal 10 with our pretrial detention 11 alternatives as well as more equitable 12 sentencing practices. So we are in the 13 process right now executing those 14 recommendations to reduce the amount of 15 individuals who are incarcerated. 16 We -- about two or three 17 months ago, we had a planning retreat 18 in conjunction with Baptist Community 19 Ministries, which -- which are -- which 20 is helping to implement these 21 recommendations. And ultimately, what 22 we hope is that we -- we reform our 23 system and reform a paradigm, and the 24 mentality down here to only focus on 25 those individuals who need to be Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 34 1 incarcerated, to execute various laws, 2 from a municipal perspective, as well 3 as provide those services needed not to 4 over incarcerate and criminalize 5 otherwise decent citizens. 6 So that's actually part of 7 the full thrust of the council right 8 now along with various activist 9 throughout our criminal justice system. 10 And it's something that we're very 11 proud of right now, as we speak. So 12 this is something -- I'm glad you asked 13 that question. We're working very hard 14 on that end. 15 COMMISSIONER FELLNER: 16 Thank you. 17 MAJOR DUFRENE: 18 We're pretty much in the 19 same -- going in the same direction. 20 Lafourche Parish is recognized, as well 21 as other parishes around the state, 22 have recognized the -- first of all, 23 we're overpopulated in jail -- in the 24 jails. And we're also recognizing that 25 many of the people being incarcerated Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 35 1 do not necessarily need to be there. 2 So there are some things that have been 3 done. For instance, the District 4 Attorney of Lafourche Parish has 5 started the Pretrial Intervention 6 Program, which, of course, is not brand 7 new, but it does help from 8 incarcerating those who are not 9 necessarily needing incarceration. We 10 also have partnered with -- with the 11 drug court. We also have drug court to 12 try to eliminate the number of people 13 being placed in jail for minor drug 14 charges. And we have partnered with 15 additional service providers in the 16 areas. And -- for instance, we have a 17 work release facility that -- we 18 believe in rehabilitation and 19 re-integration. We're also trying to 20 do it before they get into the system, 21 partnering with local agencies and 22 service providers. 23 So to answer your question, 24 yes, we do believe that too many people 25 are going to jail. Some for minor Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 36 1 crimes that probably could be done in a 2 more preventive measure, so. But we 3 are looking -- we're constantly looking 4 for innovative measures to try to 5 reduce the number of people placed in 6 jail. 7 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 8 I think -- yes? 9 MR. FOTI: 10 While you're looking at 11 this. One of the things that happens 12 when you say mental health -- and not 13 only in this state but states across 14 the country -- because there's no 15 adequate mental health treatment where 16 a person calls up and says a member of 17 their family is acting bizarre. And 18 the police or sheriff arrest them, and 19 they bring them to hospital. At that 20 time, unless they are homicidal or 21 suicidal at the time the resident sees 22 them, they won't accept them. So then 23 they have no alternative but to 24 incarcerate them in a local lockup. 25 So as you're looking at the Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 37 1 mental health facility and mental 2 health capability in conjunction with 3 prison rape, also look at mental health 4 facilities where people that are being 5 arrested for no other crime except they 6 can't be handled are put in jail to be 7 stabilized. And we think that would go 8 a long way to helping out what's 9 happening in our jails today. 10 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 11 Gentlemen. Thank you. 12 Thank you for your appearance. Thank 13 you for your responses. Thank you for 14 your wisdom, and thank you for your 15 commitment to helping us to move along. 16 And we'll try to help you. Thank you 17 very much. 18 MR. FOTI: 19 Thank you very much. 20 MAJOR DUFRENE: 21 Thank you. 22 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 23 I want to acknowledge the 24 attendance and presence of United 25 States attorney for Eastern District of Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 38 1 Louisiana, Jim Letten. Jim is a former 2 colleague of our general counsel, 3 Margaret Chiara. And I thank you so 4 much for coming. 5 I am going to acknowledge a 6 very gracious letter from Senator Mary 7 Landrieu. I'm not going to read it 8 into the record. It is a letter of 9 support for the Commission's work, and 10 note that the New Orleans area is in 11 particular need of -- of help in 12 preventing sexual abuse in its 13 facilities. Thank you Senator 14 Landrieu. 15 We're now going to -- I've 16 been reminded -- again, I'm -- I could 17 never make it as a flight attendant on 18 an aircraft, because I have not 19 reminded you to turn off cell phones 20 and pagers and other wireless devices, 21 so I now do so. 22 Welcome. These folks are 23 the first of our expert panels. We 24 have heard from expert panels around 25 the United States. This is the last of Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 39 1 our hearings in which an expert panel 2 is likely to be heard. We try to cover 3 a very, very broad spectrum of 4 facilities, abuse problems, et cetera. 5 The -- just for your 6 information, it began at South Bend, 7 Indiana. I might ask -- that's another 8 story for another time. Why South 9 Bend? I've been to Washington, Boston, 10 San Francisco, Detroit, Miami, Los 11 Angeles, Austin, and here today in New 12 Orleans. 13 As you see, our first panel 14 consist of three persons. They are 15 going to give personal accounts of 16 interaction with prison sexual abuse. 17 The first account comes from 18 the Director of the Office of State 19 Victim/Witness Assistance of the New 20 Hampshire Attorney General's Office. 21 And Sandy Matheson was involved in the 22 prosecution of staff sexual misconduct 23 case, and a rather spectacular one as 24 you will learn. The second is provided 25 by co-director of Families and Friends Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 40 1 of Louisiana's Incarcerated Children. 2 And the third comes from a former 3 inmate of Louisiana State Penitentiary 4 at Angola. 5 On behalf of the Prison Rape 6 Elimination Commission, I am pleased to 7 introduce our three witnesses. First, 8 Ms. Matheson. 9 MS. MATHESON: 10 Thank you, Mr. Chairman and 11 Commission Members. As you said, I've 12 been the director of the State Office 13 of Victim Assistance for the past 20 14 years. And I want to thank you for the 15 opportunity to testify. 16 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 17 I made my next mistake. You 18 need to be sworn in, all of you. So, 19 if you three would rise, Ms. Chiara 20 will administer the oath. 21 (Three witnesses sworn.) 22 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 23 I apologize for the 24 interruption. Please begin, 25 Ms. Matheson. Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 41 1 MS. MATHESON: 2 Thank you. I would like to 3 thank you for the opportunity to 4 testify before you today. I was asked 5 to come to talk about one particular 6 New Hampshire case, and I feel as 7 though I'm representing a group of 8 women who are not able to speak for 9 themselves. I must state that all but 10 one of the criminal cases are still 11 pending, and they have been 11 civil 12 suits filed involving 30 plaintiffs. 13 So my testimony today is based upon 14 arrest warrants, affidavits, and other 15 public record material. 16 This case involves Douglas 17 Tower, a New Hampshire correctional 18 officer who is assigned as the night 19 supervisor at the Shea Farms halfway 20 house Concord, New Hampshire, a minimum 21 security facility that houses 22 approximately 45 female inmates. 23 Shea Farms looks like a 24 large white farmhouse sitting on a back 25 road. The women live in comfortable Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 42 1 dorm rooms, and depending on their 2 classification and the ability to work 3 in the community, go on weekend leaves 4 and visits with their children and 5 their family members. This is in sharp 6 contrast to the New Hampshire State 7 Prison for Women, which is very 8 overcrowded and surrounded by barbwire 9 and fences and very limited 10 programming. 11 Sergeant Tower, age 60, 12 has been a correctional officer for 14 13 years, and had previously been assigned 14 to the New Hampshire Prison for Women. 15 In 2002, a female correctional officer 16 had accused him of sexual harassment, 17 and as a result of that he had been 18 transferred to Shea Farms, which, at 19 the time, held -- was a male facility. 20 When Shea Farms became a 21 female facility, Tower remained in 22 charge working primarily the nightshift 23 and was often the only officer on duty. 24 He had the authority to approve or 25 limit overnight leave requests, Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 43 1 telephone privileges, and visits with 2 family members. He had the ability to 3 write the women up for disciplinary 4 infractions and to send them back 5 behind bars. In other words, he had 6 ultimate authority and control over 7 these women. 8 In June of 2005, one woman 9 came forward to disclose abuse by 10 Tower. And in April of 2006, after a 11 lengthy state police investigation, the 12 Attorney General's Office indicted him 13 on 54 charges involving 12 different 14 inmates. Charges included 18 felony 15 counts of sexual assault, 16 16 misdemeanor counts of sexual assault, 17 and 19 counts of simple assault, all 18 with extended terms. The alleged acts 19 included vaginal, oral, and anal 20 penetration. Other forms of sexual 21 conduct and physical assault, including 22 pinching, choking, and grabbing. 23 The 12 women named in the 24 indictments range from the age of 21 to 25 41. They were serving time for charges Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 44 1 ranging from armed robbery, drug 2 possession, prostitution, forgery, et 3 cetera. Many of the women have long 4 histories of drug or alcohol abuse and 5 mental health issues. And almost all 6 of them have reported they have been 7 previously victims of a violent crime. 8 One young woman, who stands 9 out for me, had recently been sexually 10 assaulted while working in the 11 community. The suspect had been 12 arrested and was pending trial, and he 13 was let out on bail. The woman told 14 correctional staff that she was afraid 15 to go out and run into him. So as a 16 result, Tower was assigned to drive her 17 to and from her job, and it was during 18 these trips that he had allegedly 19 assaulted her. 20 As the women began to come 21 forward, we began to see a pattern of 22 the coercion and threats. Tower would 23 sign a woman's leave slips and tell her 24 she owed him one. He would write up 25 someone up with a "D" report and then Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 45 1 tear it up telling her that if she did 2 him a favor, she could see her 3 boyfriend who was not on the approved 4 visitors' list. 5 One woman reported that when 6 she refused his second request for oral 7 sex, he revoked her visiting privileges 8 and would not let her even call her 9 son. She was sent back to prison. And 10 when she returned two months later, he 11 told her he was glad she was back 12 'cause he always put -- she always put 13 a smile on his face. 14 Tower even told one woman 15 that he had an incident with a fellow 16 correctional officer who accused him of 17 acting inappropriately, and that the 18 investigators did not believe that 19 other officer. So if they did not 20 belief the officer, why would they even 21 believe another inmate? 22 The first trial involving 23 the youngest of the woman, a 24 21-year-old, began in January of this 25 year. After ten days of testimony and Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 46 1 the victim testifying for almost a full 2 day on the stand, Tower was found 3 guilty of two counts of aggravated 4 felonious sexual assault and four 5 counts of felonious sexual assault. He 6 was sentenced to 20 to 40 years in New 7 Hampshire State Prison for Men, and he 8 will not, under our Truth-in-Sentencing 9 laws, be eligible for parole until he 10 has served his minimum sentence of 20 11 years. 12 Since his case has began, 13 just about every one of these women at 14 some point has violated their parole 15 and ended up behind bars. Several of 16 them have relapsed and went back to 17 using. One woman attempted suicide and 18 almost died. But the case not only 19 impacted the women involved but also 20 other inmates at Shea Farms as well 21 as -- as DOC staff. 22 One of the first issues to 23 arise was the fact that due to their 24 lack of trust, the women didn't want 25 anything to do with DOC Mental Health Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 47 1 Services. They wanted to see a 2 therapist in the community. I worked 3 with them to file a claim for our State 4 Victim'S Compensation Program to pay 5 for that. But because of an existing 6 rule that prohibited inmates from 7 receiving compensation, the claims were 8 denied. The rule has since been 9 changed as a result of this case, and 10 the Attorney General herself made the 11 decision that these women deserves to 12 have mental health services and made 13 arrangements for the cost to be paid 14 out of other funds. 15 The State is insisting that 16 any plea negotiations in the other 17 cases, includes Tower taking 18 responsibility for all of the charges 19 involving every single woman, and at 20 this time is refusing to do so. Our 21 next trial is scheduled for next week. 22 The New Hampshire DOC has 23 made many changes as a result of this 24 case, and it is hard to measure the 25 emotional cost to the victims, to the Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 48 1 other New Hampshire Department of 2 Corrections' staff, and the public's 3 trust in the system. The financial 4 cost of the State is yet to be 5 determined. 6 I want to thank you for the 7 opportunity to share these stories with 8 you. And I hope that these cases will 9 be prevented in the future as a result 10 of the work of this Commission. Thank 11 you. 12 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 13 Thank you, Ms. Matheson. I 14 think we will defer questions until we 15 have the benefit of the three 16 statements. 17 Ms. Womack. 18 MS. WOMACK: 19 Good morning. Thank you for 20 allowing me to come this morning and 21 speak on behalf of Grace Bauer, who was 22 supposed to come and give testimony. 23 And she's sorry that she couldn't be 24 here. 25 My name is Gina Womack, and Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 49 1 I'm co-director of Family and Friends 2 of Louisiana's Incarcerated Children, 3 which I will refer to as FFLIC. When I 4 first came to this work over ten years 5 ago, while working with the Juvenile 6 Justice Project of Louisiana, known as 7 JJPL, and they were suing the State for 8 ghastly conditions of confinement for 9 kids in the juvenile system. 10 At that time, I began 11 talking to many parents across the 12 state, and were shaken to mind the many 13 horror stories about their children 14 that were locked behind the prison bars 15 in Louisiana. It was because of these 16 stories that I lobbied JJPL to begin a 17 support group for the parents, and that 18 we later co-founded FFLIC. 19 Grace Bauer was one of those 20 parents that turned to JJPL for 21 support, because [*], her son, landed in the 22 Department of Corrections where she was 23 led to believe that her son would get 24 treatment in a rehabilitation system, 25 only to find that her child would not * Ms. Bauer's son's name has been removed for privacy reasons. Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 50 1 be cared about, but under-- cared for 2 but sentenced under punitive hands of a 3 system that was then being runned by an 4 adult system. And there was no 5 rehabilitation going on. 6 Grace was so taken aback 7 about what she learned. She became so 8 involved in the work of FFLIC, that 9 she wanted to help prevent other 10 children from experiencing what her 11 son had endured. And to help 12 other mothers as they felt -- to help 13 other mothers to -- to prevent them 14 from feeling as hopeless as she had. 15 And through our work together, I have 16 come to know the Bauers very well over 17 the last six years as we have worked to 18 help Grace and [ ] to heal from this 19 gruesome experience. I feel honored 20 that Grace asked me to come and be her 21 voice this morning to unveil her son's 22 story to you. So Grace said, in 23 Grace's voice: 24 My name is Grace Bauer. And 25 this long statement has been prepared Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 51 1 for the federal hearing in New Orleans, 2 Louisiana on December 5th, 2007. Due 3 to my being able -- unable to travel at 4 this time, my statement will be read by 5 Gina Womack. 6 In a small town in Louisiana 7 in 2001, my 14-year-old son was 8 incarcerated in the Tallulah 9 Correctional Facility for Youth, better 10 known as Tallulah. He was deemed 11 ungovernable by the State of Louisiana 12 and sent away from his home and his 13 family to receive care for mental 14 health issues and substance abuse 15 problems. As his mother, I was told he 16 would go into a 90-day program that 17 would focus on his behavior problems 18 and help him get back on track. In 19 reality, what occurred was that he 20 was sentenced till his 18th birthday in 21 the care of the Louisiana Department of 22 Corrections for stealing a stereo out 23 of a truck and being in possession of 24 tobacco. 25 Up until January of 1998, Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 52 1 My son was an honorary student with 2 excellent reading skills and a heart of 3 gold. He had never been sent to the 4 office or been a problem at school or 5 home. The change that occurred that 6 January in the life of this little boy, 7 was that his beloved grandmother 8 suddenly passed away. In February, he 9 was suspended for the first time. By 10 April of that year, he had been 11 expelled from our school district. You 12 might believe he had created some great 13 chaos or caused physical harm to 14 someone, but the person [ ] would 15 harm, besides his family, was himself. 16 Every offense, before stealing the 17 stereo, involved tobacco, possession of 18 tobacco by a minor, shoplifting tobacco 19 and smoking. 20 In March of 2001, my son was 21 sentenced to the Department of 22 Corrections where he was told he would 23 receive the care he needed and be given 24 the tools he needed to get through his 25 grief and rebuild his battered Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 53 1 self-esteem. In reality, what happened 2 to this little boy was that his life 3 was, again, changed. But this time to 4 such a degree that today, at the age of 5 21, he's still struggles with 6 nightmares and a very bruised and 7 battered spirit and body. 8 A mother knows certain 9 things about her children, and she 10 knows when something is wrong. I knew 11 something was wrong with [ ] long 12 before he was released through a 13 hearing, which, before him, had never 14 happened in our jurisdiction of 15 Calcasieu Parish. He came home with no 16 transition plan, no aftercare plan. 17 My son's homecoming was a very 18 special day in our lives. If you went 19 to wake him up, he would strike at you 20 before awakened fully and realizing 21 where he was. You had to make him 22 aware that you were approaching him or 23 he would have an anxiety attack, if he 24 felt startled. He struggled with 25 insomnia and anxiety beyond what a Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 54 1 child his age shouldn't have 2 experienced. As a mother, I knew 3 something terrible had happened. I 4 felt the best course of action was to 5 leave the way open for discussion, but 6 not push him to discuss what his time 7 had been like in prison. 8 As his mother, I look back 9 and know that it was likely my own mind 10 that could not handle what had happened 11 to my little boy. [ ] did well for 12 almost two years after his return home 13 but, inevitably, the things that 14 brought him down the first time and the 15 abuse he had endured was slowly 16 creeping back into his life. 17 After losing mental 18 healthcare and substance abuse 19 treatment, he began to use drugs again. 20 Eventually, this landed him in the 21 adult system where he would stay until 22 he was 20. During this time, the adult 23 facility -- in the adult facility, I 24 was working with other families in 25 similar situations to our own. Through Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 55 1 one of these connections, I would hear 2 what no mother should have to hear 3 about one of her children. A young man 4 incarcerated with my son at Tallulah 5 became his cellmate in the adult 6 prison. After a sudden and 7 inexplicable move my son to another 8 prison, this young man recounted a day 9 he spent with [ ] in Tallulah in 2001. 10 He said that he had witnessed the rape 11 and sexual assault of my son. This young 12 man gave details of the savage attack 13 that will never be erased from my 14 memory. He told of my son being held 15 up against the wall and having another 16 youth rape him anally while my son 17 screamed for help that never came. 18 It is to be remembered by 19 this Commission and all that hear of 20 his experience that this was a child. 21 A little boy far from home suffering 22 with mental illness and grief. He was 23 in a place where he was to be cared for 24 and given the mental health treatment 25 he needed. He never received any of Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 56 1 the help we were told he would get. 2 And in the end, he will be hurt so 3 deeply that even today he struggles to 4 remain sober and a part of this world. 5 It is also to be remembered that he had 6 not been -- that if it had not been for 7 this young man telling what he knew, I 8 would never have known about the truth 9 about what happened to my son on that 10 awful day. 11 My son at the age of 21 is 12 tough and hard by his four years of 13 incarceration and the things he 14 witnessed there. He will likely never 15 say to anyone what happened to him or 16 what he saw happened to others because, 17 in his mind, he is strong and tough. 18 And tough men don't talk about such 19 things. 20 As his mother I can only 21 imagine the shame, hurt, humiliation 22 and how very alone he must feel. It 23 keeps me awake at night and steals my 24 thoughts and my breath away when 25 something happens to trigger this Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 57 1 thought in my waking hours. I ask this 2 Commission to never forget what 3 happened to my son on that day, and know 4 in your hearts that he is not alone. 5 We must stop the madness 6 over incarceration and begin to build 7 our children, our families, and our 8 communities rather than destroying them 9 through horror and brutality. It is 10 said that society can be judged by the 11 way it treats its young. Let us hope 12 each of us, as Americans, are never 13 judged by this savage and brutality 14 that my son endured that day. 15 My sincere appreciation to 16 the Commission for the opportunity to 17 be heard today. Thank you. 18 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 19 Thank you, Ms. Womack. I 20 would simply observe that Ms. Bauer's son's tragic 21 situation today is why this Commission 22 exist. 23 Mr. Henderson. 24 MR. HENDERSON: 25 Good morning. Thank you. Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 58 1 My name is Norris Henderson. I am 2 currently the co-director of Safe 3 Streets Strong Communities, a local 4 criminal justice organization. And I 5 am here primarily because of a lot of 6 folks -- I stayed in Angola, Louisiana 7 State Prison System for over 20 8 years -- 27 years, 10 months, and 11 9 days. 10 During my stay, Angola was 11 known as the most dangerous prison in 12 America. On your first day of arriving 13 in Angola, you were -- which was termed 14 "fresh fish day." You were given a 15 choice. A choice to be somebody's 16 slave, or a choice stand up and kill or 17 be killed. That was the nature of this 18 institution. This was perpetuated by 19 the people in corrections. They were 20 the ones that advised you that you're 21 here, you belong to them. And for the 22 most part, most guys who arrive in 23 Angola during the 70s were arriving 24 there because of crimes with life 25 sentences or sentences that were Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 59 1 practically life. 2 I worked in the prison law 3 library for over 20 years. I 4 represented guys who were accusing 5 prisoners of raping other guys. I also 6 represented victims of those same 7 crimes. And so my role here today is 8 because I try to find some people who 9 have experienced this negative effect 10 to come forward and tell about their 11 experience. But in our community, 12 especially African-American community, 13 that's taboo when something like this 14 happens; that people are afraid to come 15 forward and share their experience with 16 people, for bad -- for better or for 17 worse. And so I'm here today to try to 18 shine some light on that situation, 19 because it's something that needs to be 20 brought to the forefront. This happens 21 more frequently than people can even 22 imagine inside the environment. 23 When you are in an 24 environment -- Angola at the time the 25 population was 5100 inmates. And you Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 60 1 are in a situation where -- this 2 environment, where you have to sleep, 3 literally, with magazines scrapped 4 around your chest to prevent somebody 5 from harming you, or to prevent 6 yourself from being victimized. 7 The thing that strikes me 8 the most is the fact that -- 'cause I 9 stayed there during that time plus this 10 transition. And the transition in a 11 sense of how it went from the worse 12 prison in America to a prison that's, 13 at least, livable today, was that the 14 mindset of the folks inside started 15 changing. They realized that they were 16 all in this boat together and they had 17 to live with each other. And so the 18 mindset started changing. But this 19 prison was so segregated, not just 20 racially segregated, but segregated to 21 the extent that weak versus strong. 22 That all the weaker inmates were housed 23 in a unit called Magnolia. That is -- 24 that had known homosexuals, known 25 turnouts, people who had been raped, Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 61 1 sexually assaulted, or who just 2 couldn't live in the general population 3 altogether. 4 And one of the things that 5 perpetuated that culture was the fact 6 that the administration used that to 7 control the prison. They would take 8 individuals, and on your first day 9 there, would assign you to another 10 inmate. You belonged to this 11 individual. And at that point, it was 12 on you to sink or swim. Either you 13 belonged to that individual as his 14 slave, or you stood up for yourself 15 and, you know, done what you needed to 16 do to survive. 17 And so the horror of this is 18 kind of like -- trying to explain 19 this -- I mean, I don't wish nobody 20 will have to be there to see it, to 21 understand it. But the horror of this 22 to why so many young men come to a 23 prison environment and segue from what 24 Gina -- the story Gina told about 25 [ ]. Was the fact that nobody Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 62 1 prepares you for prison. 2 When you arrive in prison, 3 prison is an apprehensive experience 4 for everybody. Nobody knows what to 5 expect. But when you're confronted 6 with people who have knives, 7 brandishing all kinds of weapons, and 8 you're threaten with, either you're 9 going to be for me or I'm going to kill 10 you. some people take the way out and 11 submit. This perpetuated throughout 12 Louisiana Correctional System. This 13 spread like wildfire. 14 And the story that she 15 mentioned about -- and it follows you. 16 It just don't follow you there. 17 Because even the guys who sought 18 protection from the administration, 19 once they left to what they call a 20 check-out court, once the word got out 21 throughout the prison that they went to 22 check-out court, they arrive somewhere 23 else, the drama became even magnified. 24 Because somebody -- you're already 25 identified as, one, being weak, one, Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 63 1 being a turnout, or, one, being a 2 homosexual. And at that time you 3 became prey. It's known that -- in 4 that environment, that they force 5 men -- and it's kind of -- it's tragic 6 how things happen. 'Cause one day you 7 can see a guy who you think is fine and 8 all well. The next day you see him, 9 he'd shaved his legs, shaved his 10 eyebrows, and shaved his mustache. And 11 when you question them about what 12 happened, the shame, the hurt, the 13 humility about what had happen to them 14 is almost unbearable to the extent that 15 that's why nobody is here today, 16 because what happens there people want 17 it to stay there. 18 The tragic side of that is 19 that those people never receive any 20 type of mental healthcare. And -- you 21 know, I tell people, even from my 22 experience of being there that long, 23 that I convince myself that I'm okay. 24 But I'm certain that after 27 years, 25 almost 28 years, in the environment Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 64 1 like that, that I may not be okay. I 2 may not be okay to the extent of seeing 3 those horror on a daily. I mean, 24/7, 4 365 is not actually the physical of 5 brutality of somebody being raped. The 6 after fact of some man walking around 7 in feminine underwear. And this was 8 kind of like perpetuated inside this 9 environment up until the early 90s 10 where it became almost, you know, just 11 unacceptable for this institution to be 12 kind of like -- condone it. 13 But part of that institution 14 condone that type of behavior inside 15 the environment because they use it as 16 a sense of control. That if a guy had 17 what they call "prison family," if they 18 wanted information from this guy about 19 something that went on in the prison, 20 they would go take somebody from his 21 prison family. And he would either 22 cooperate with them or that person 23 would not return. That person was 24 given to somebody else. 25 And so this is how this Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 65 1 system kind of like operated for better 2 than -- for at least 20-something years 3 that I was inside that prison. 4 So to the extent that -- 5 what can be done to change this? One, 6 definitely, oversight. One of the 7 other things that Sandi mentioned is 8 the fact that the people who help 9 perpetuate these crimes are the people 10 who are there sworn to protect and care 11 for you. And I think when we have that 12 type of breakdown in those environments 13 where people punish people -- I 14 represented folks who were in the 15 corrections' person's mind being 16 punished by putting them in harm's way, 17 putting them in a cell with somebody 18 who was known for raping other inmates, 19 somebody who was known for taking 20 advantage of other inmates. And would 21 just put them in those cells because 22 they talked back to them, what they 23 would call disrespect or something to 24 that nature. If a guy was put on -- 25 trying to appear to be tough, well, Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 66 1 I'll see how tough you is. And the 2 worse things happen to folks like that. 3 In the situation where the 4 Attorney General was mentioning about 5 crimes seems -- it's difficult to 6 prosecute cases like that, because most 7 of the people that it happens to very 8 seldom, if ever, come forward and tell. 9 It is because of the stigma that 10 surrounds it. I've known people's 11 families to disown them because 12 something like that has happened to 13 them. Most mothers raise their sons to 14 be men. And when something like that, 15 beyond their control, happens to them, 16 mothers, in the African-American 17 community specifically, respond in 18 negative ways, that I didn't raise a 19 girl. I raised a boy. 20 And so the stigma of men 21 living under this, you know, the horror 22 that can happen to them in prison, and 23 knowing that I would never get a visit 24 from my family again because of what 25 had happened to me. Sometimes because Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 67 1 of -- at their own hand -- never at 2 their own hand to the extent that they 3 wanted it to happen. But to the extent 4 that they just weren't strong enough to 5 fight back. 6 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 7 Mr. Henderson, I regret to 8 have -- I must interrupt you here just 9 because of the clock. I will say that 10 we've heard a lot of hair-raising 11 accounts of sexual abuse in prisons, as 12 you might expect. I must say, speaking 13 for myself, again, you certainly have, 14 regrettably, a very long experience, 15 and you cataloged it very well. And 16 the chilling part of your testimony is 17 how you, I'm afraid, accurately 18 describe the people in control using 19 all of this unfortunate behavior as a 20 tool of control. And we're not 21 surprised to hear that. But you've -- 22 you've summarized it better than any 23 witness we've had so far. And we are 24 listening to you. 25 With that, I'm going to ask Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 68 1 panelists to proffer whatever questions 2 they may have to any -- any of the 3 panelists. And I'll start to my right 4 with Jim Aiken. 5 COMMISSIONER AIKEN: 6 Again, I would like to share 7 with you, as the Vice Chair had shared 8 with you, our appreciation for the 9 presentations today. 10 One question, Mr. Henderson. 11 In relationship to Angola, how much do 12 you -- I sense that you are talking 13 about formalizing and allowing this 14 type of practice to take place 15 previously as a management tool in the 16 prison setting; is that correct? 17 MR. HENDERSON: 18 That's correct. 19 COMMISSIONER AIKEN: 20 Now, how do you think it was 21 permeated through the system? Was it 22 sanctioned at the top or at the middle 23 or so-called at the bottom? I mean -- 24 what I mean by that is, is there formal 25 acknowledgment by top officials, or Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 69 1 it's allowed by those people that are 2 running individual cell blocks, for 3 example? 4 MR. HENDERSON: 5 This was perpetuated 6 throughout the whole system. It wasn't 7 like this was the best kept secret in 8 the world. When you're walking in an 9 environment and there are men wearing 10 feminine clothes, the first question 11 you have to ask, how did these men get 12 these feminine clothes in here? I'm 13 talking about feminine to the extent of 14 Baby Doll gowns, panties, fishnet 15 stockings. You name it, they had it. 16 And when they would see men 17 in it, it wasn't like they were 18 confiscated. They just let them kept 19 it. I mean, one of the tragic things 20 about this environment was, when 21 younger inmates came to the prison who 22 was juvenile convicted as adults who 23 couldn't -- who couldn't live in the 24 prison population because of the men, 25 of their size or their age. They would Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 70 1 put them in this environment where this 2 culture exist. 3 And to say that nobody knew 4 that this went on would just be a lie, 5 because everybody knew it went on, from 6 the warden all the way down. 7 COMMISSIONER AIKEN: 8 Just one more question, Mr. 9 Chairman. And this may sound nuts and 10 bolts, but I think it will be 11 beneficial, for me at least. 12 When you arrived at the 13 prison, be it Angola or anywhere else, 14 in your experience, how were housing 15 assignments made, that is particular 16 cell blocks? 17 MR. HENDERSON: 18 Housing was made primarily 19 racially. Whites went in one area of 20 the prison and blacks went in one area. 21 But also, it went along the lines of -- 22 they just physically looking at you and 23 figure, okay. Well, you might be all 24 right. You went into the main prison 25 where it was like where 2,000 prisoners Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 71 1 lived. If you look where you are small 2 in size and you look like you may have 3 a problem, so to speak, that you will 4 be housed somewhere else. They 5 probably put you in one of the working 6 cell blocks where it's two-men cell 7 size as oppose to being in the 8 dormitory with 6,000 folks. 9 So it was just kind of like 10 just a gut shot. You looking at 11 somebody through your prison experience 12 and saying, this guy might be all right 13 if I send him this way, and he should 14 be able to, you know, take care of 15 himself. For those guys who had 16 effeminate characteristics or just that 17 look of fear on their faces, it was 18 almost like, as a caveat, I'm going to 19 send you down there by so and so and 20 so. when you go down there, you ask 21 for so and so and so. Unbeknownst to 22 the individual that he was kind of like 23 selling his soul to the devil right 24 then, because so and so was somebody 25 who was supposed to protect you, but Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 72 1 put you in a bind. So for the -- the 2 new person coming into prison saying, 3 well, I'm going to send you down there 4 to James. Well, you go down there not 5 knowing, hey, I'm looking for James. 6 Well, everybody else in the prison, the 7 code word was, okay, you belong to 8 James now. 9 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 10 Thank you, Mr. -- I'm a 11 creature of the clock here, so. 12 COMMISSIONER AIKEN: 13 Thank you. 14 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 15 Commissioner Fellner. 16 COMMISSIONER FELLNER: 17 Ms. Matheson, I wanted to 18 ask two questions. One, one of the 19 things that we heard in many of our 20 hearings and know that it is very 21 difficult to get state officials to 22 prosecute these cases. So I wonder if 23 you could share some of -- what lessons 24 might be drawn from egregious case, 25 although there's probably been many Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 73 1 complaints made over the years that 2 hasn't been prosecuted. So I wondered 3 if you could tell us something about 4 the decision-making. 5 And two, you pointed out in 6 your testimony that under the Victims' 7 Compensation Legislation, at the time 8 in New Hampshire inmates who were 9 victims could not get compensated. And 10 I guess that law has been changed. And 11 would you recommend that it be a part 12 of -- of one of our recommendations, 13 that inmate victims be allowed to be 14 compensated? Because I know this is a 15 problem of reality with many state 16 laws, that too bad if you're 17 victimization occurred behind bars, you 18 don't get help. 19 So if you could address both 20 of those please in the time that we 21 have, it'd be very great. 22 MS. MATHESON: 23 On the second -- on the 24 second question, it is a rule that we 25 changed. So I think that states are Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 74 1 very capable of being able to change 2 that rule and to ensure that -- that 3 innocent victims, inmates that are 4 victimized in prison, receive 5 compensation because it's very, very 6 important, especially with the lack of 7 trust in the system. 8 I think I need to applaud 9 the New Hampshire Attorney General 10 officer for taking on this case. One 11 of the things we do have is a public 12 integrity unit within our office. And 13 it came in through that, because it was 14 a correctional officer. And we 15 represent the Department of Corrections 16 in the -- upstairs, so it became a very 17 difficult situation for our office. 18 But we immediately went in, 19 and we actually did a debriefing with 20 the women that were already there, 21 filling them in on the information that 22 we could give them right away, and 23 trying to set up a safe place for them 24 to come forward. And that was the big 25 thing. We gave out confidential Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 75 1 contact information. We left the 2 crisis number, the local crisis number. 3 We had a specific person for any woman 4 to contact. And you've got to 5 remember, this is a community 6 corrections facility, so they had more 7 opportunity to make those calls in 8 private. And try to reach out and say 9 to them, we will believe you, and we 10 will fight for you. And I think that 11 was key in bringing what turned out 12 from one woman to all 17 women coming 13 forward. 14 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 15 We do need to move on. So 16 rather than going to each commissioner, 17 I will now ask if any commissioner who 18 has not had a chance to ask a question 19 first, and then anybody who has 20 questions of these panelist. 21 Yes, Commissioner Puryear. 22 COMMISSIONER PURYEAR: 23 Question for -- one quick 24 comment and one quick question. I 25 hope, Ms. Womack, that you'll convey to Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 76 1 Ms. Bauer how much we appreciate her 2 story, and wish she could have been 3 here to relay it to us, but we 4 understand why she's not. 5 Mr. Henderson, you talk some 6 about Magnolia Unit, which got me a 7 little curious. You know, one of the 8 issues, as you correctly stated, is 9 that people don't want to self-report 10 as victims. That's a problem in and of 11 itself. Then if a victim reports and 12 they're placed in the administrative 13 segregation as an initial matter, well 14 intention though that move may be, that 15 it amounts to a punishment for having 16 come forward. 17 What happened to turnouts 18 and the people who were at Magnolia 19 unit that you reference, was that a 20 safe unit to be in, or do they have 21 some of the same issues? 22 MR. HENDERSON: 23 It was more magnified in 24 Magnolia. Because when you are put in 25 Magnolia, one of the things that happen Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 77 1 Over -- from experience, what I've 2 learned is that, most people who are 3 victimized in that way, internalize it. 4 And what started happening was they 5 started feeding off of each other. 6 They started taking advantage of each 7 other. I mean, the strongest amongst 8 that group started preying on the 9 weakest of that group, so it just 10 perpetuated itself. 11 It wasn't until 1982, where 12 that unit was actually bust opened and 13 they had to put them in general 14 population that it became worse. 15 Because then the statement was, Oh, you 16 lived in Magnolia. You weak for some 17 reason. Either you gay, you a turnout, 18 or you just literally weak. 19 COMMISSIONER PURYEAR: 20 Based on your experience in 21 the system, what would you recommend as 22 a standard for what should be done, 23 both to protect and to reassign inmates 24 who raised allegations that they had 25 been victimized? Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 78 1 MR. HENDERSON: 2 First, you've got to believe 3 them. 'Cause in most cases, it's not 4 believed. The people who run 5 corrections is like, you done committed 6 some Godforsaken crime outside. Suck 7 it up. And so to the extent that's the 8 mindset, that you've done something. 9 Most people who are subject to this is 10 people who come to prison for 11 committing crimes against elderly 12 people, committing crimes against 13 children. And anybody that comes to 14 jail for rape is that, oh, you raped 15 somebody. I'm going to show you what 16 that experience is like. And that's 17 the mindset inside the prison. 18 So until the administer, the 19 people who classify people when they 20 first come in, they kind of like get 21 some type of assessment to be able to 22 deal with this. But a lot of this not 23 only happens at the penitentiary level, 24 it happens at the local jails. So it 25 starts long before a person arrives at Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 79 1 the penitentiary. 2 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 3 Other Commissioners? 4 COMMISSIONER STRUCKMAN-JOHNSON: 5 Yes. Mr. Henderson, thank 6 you for your testimony. It's -- to 7 have a witness, somebody who for 20 8 years watched it and to say it so 9 plainly. Thank you. 10 It's a little bit unreal, 11 when you're in our position. But the 12 way you just stated it, it's very 13 plainly and that -- that helps. 14 One quick question. Is 15 Angola now what -- do you know what's 16 happening now, in like 2003, '4, '5, 17 '6, '7? 18 MR. HENDERSON: 19 Angola has kind of 20 transformed itself. During -- even 21 during this time, in the worst time, 22 the black experience, kind of like took 23 over. The Black Panther movement, the 24 Nation of Islam with the Muslims. And 25 it all became a situation where we are Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 80 1 our brother's keepers. And so to the 2 extent that brothers started putting 3 their lives on the line to protect 4 other people, started changing it. 5 But with even that, the push back from 6 that became -- because that's 7 organizing, and prisons do not allow 8 you to organize, no shape, form or 9 fashion. And so some people who were 10 in the vanguard of organizing to 11 protect people, couldn't protect 12 themselves. Well, they became victims 13 of the system, because they were locked 14 up for organizing and trying to 15 overthrow the administration. 16 So it was kind of like a 17 bitter sweet thing in the sense that 18 people who were courageous enough to 19 step up and say, we got to stop this -- 20 doing this to each other, that they 21 were victimized because that wasn't 22 part of the prison program. 23 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 24 Just -- if I may ask, Mr. 25 Henderson. I think Commissioner Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 81 1 Struckman-Johnson's question is, how 2 are things now in Angola, as far as you 3 know? Just quickly. 4 MR. HENDERSON: 5 Things are remarkably 6 better. Remarkably better to the 7 extent that guys have learned to live 8 with each other. And this 9 transformation kind of like started 10 internally, not externally, with the 11 administration saying, we don't crack 12 down. 13 One -- I think one of the 14 worst things that happened to a state 15 prisons was the loss of federal 16 oversight. When the loss of federal 17 oversight went, there was nobody to 18 complain to. Like the lady say, now 19 most Attorney General office don't want 20 to prosecute cases inside of prisons. 21 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 22 Okay. I'm -- I'd be most 23 interested to hear more about the loss 24 of federal oversight. And we're going 25 to have oversight as a subject of Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 82 1 tomorrow's hearing. Maybe somebody 2 from our staff could get you before you 3 leave here, just end up -- give us what 4 you'd like to tell us on that, because 5 I don't believe you're going to be a 6 panelist tomorrow. 7 MR. HENDERSON: 8 No, I'm not. 9 MR. KANEB: 10 Thank you. Commissioner 11 Smith, and then we'll have to do a wrap 12 up. 13 COMMISSIONER SMITH: 14 All right. Gentlemen, what 15 I want to do is I want address a couple 16 of issues that I know that we're not 17 going to have questions on, but which I 18 want the staff to make sure that we 19 followup with these witnesses about. 20 One is Ms. Matheson's 21 testimony on the issues around 22 cross-gender supervision at the New 23 Hampshire facility that really 24 permitted this issue to occur. Lessons 25 learned about the state, any policy Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 83 1 changes there, followup with Mr. 2 Henderson about the racial, he mentions 3 of the abuse, since there is some 4 information in the research there tends 5 to be a racial character, and then also 6 the issue around status offenses for 7 youth and their entry into the system. 8 The question that I would 9 ask, though is really a question for 10 Ms. Matheson and a followup a little 11 bit with Commissioner Fellner's 12 question. It sounds like in New 13 Hampshire that you went out of the 14 crime victim's compensation fund to be 15 able to compensate these victims. As 16 you know, many of the states receive 17 their funding under Violence Against 18 Women at legislation or from the office 19 of -- of crime victims. And as I 20 understand it, the prohibition of 21 providing services or assistance come 22 from the federal; is that correct? 23 MS. MATHESON: 24 I'm not the expert on 25 compensation. But according to our Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 84 1 commission, we were able to change that 2 rule because there are exceptions under 3 the Federal guidelines for compensating 4 inmates. And you can put a rule in 5 that will enable state compensation 6 program to compensate. 7 COMMISSIONER SMITH: 8 So it is an affirmative 9 action that the state must take? 10 MS. MATHESON: 11 Yes. 12 MS. SMITH: 13 All right. Great. Thank 14 you. 15 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 16 Thank you all. We listened 17 and we will remember. 18 Our next panel, please. 19 Ladies and gentlemen, if you 20 will stand, you'll be sworn in. 21 (Five witnesses sworn in.) 22 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 23 This panel is Response and 24 Treatment. Response in treatment, 25 obviously, for victims of sexual abuse Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 85 1 in prison. Panelists will discuss 2 adequate, appropriate care of victims 3 of sexual violence, psychological, 4 physical, spiritual in the 5 consequences. They are Robert B. 6 Greifinger, MD, HealthCare Policy and 7 Quality Management Consultant, who are 8 focusing on designing quality 9 improvement and utilization to manage 10 correctional health -- healthcare 11 systems. 12 Jim DeGroot, Ph.D., is 13 mental health director. Dr. DeGroot 14 will lay a foundation for providing 15 psychological services in correctional 16 setting. 17 Jennifer Pierce-Weeks is 18 President-Elect, International 19 Association of Forensic Nurses and 20 Forensic Nurse Examiner, Memorial 21 Hospital. Ms. Weeks has 21 years in 22 the nursing experience and is an 23 educator and expert in the areas of 24 child development and adult sexual 25 assault. Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 86 1 Lannette Linthicum, MD, 2 Medical Director of the Texas 3 Department of Criminal Justice. Dr. 4 Linthicum made her first rounds in the 5 Texas prison system in 1986. She 6 founded the healthcare policy delivery 7 system. She found their healthcare 8 policy to be inadequate. A years 9 earlier, a federal judge presiding over 10 the prison reform lawsuit found nearly 11 the entire medical program inadequate. 12 And Dr. Linthicum is here to provide 13 valuable information on the current 14 state of healthcare delivery. 15 And lastly, Ben Raimer, MD, 16 vice president and CEO of Community 17 Health Services, University of Texas 18 Medical Branch. 19 The number of advisors on 20 the panel are of various government 21 agencies and professional 22 organizations. 23 Thank you all. 24 Starting from my left, 25 Dr. Greifinger. Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 87 1 DR. GREIFINGER: 2 Good morning, Commissioners. 3 Thank you very much for asking me to 4 testify today. I'd like to speak to 5 two issues. The first is to give you a 6 broad scope of view of the status of 7 correctional healthcare in the United 8 States today. And the second is to 9 talk about some of the challenges that 10 I see to the implementation of 11 standards in the areas of medical care 12 and mental healthcare behind bars in 13 this country. 14 During the past 31 years, 15 since the Supreme Court case Estelle v. 16 Gamble, correctional healthcare has 17 come a long way. There are now written 18 standards of care. There are fairly 19 clear expectations for policies and 20 procedures about access to care and the 21 timeliness of care. And we have seen 22 increasing quality of correctional 23 health professionals and, thereby, 24 improved sense of professionalism, 25 which has raised self-esteem and worked Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 88 1 toward recruitment and retention of 2 even better qualified staff. 3 It's widely understood that 4 timely access to care, both medical 5 care and mental healthcare, underpins 6 the standard of care in the United 7 States. Now, in reality, the 8 implementation of those policies and 9 procedures varies considerably. We 10 have some very fine correctional 11 healthcare systems and others that 12 far -- really fall far below the 13 standard. In large part because of, in 14 my opinion, the failure of many 15 jurisdictions to be able to specify 16 what they want for their medical care, 17 whether that be a contracted medical 18 care or care provided by their own 19 agencies, and for agencies' inability 20 to provide oversight. 21 There are substantial 22 challenges that lie ahead in the area 23 of correctional healthcare. First of 24 all, correctional health professionals 25 are disconnected from mainstream Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 89 1 medicine. They've got healthcare for 2 the rich, healthcare for the poor, and 3 healthcare for folks behind bars. And 4 there's a tremendous discontinuity. 5 Behind bars, for the most 6 part, we still use what's called a 7 sick-call model. It's a model of 8 episodic care that would -- is not even 9 recognized in the community. We have 10 primary care model in the community -- 11 folks have been talking about that for 12 decades -- but we still use this 13 so-called sick-call model, which does 14 not provide for continuity in 15 coordination of care. 16 Generally, there's very poor 17 integration of care for patients with 18 co-existing illness, for example, 19 mental illness and drug addictions. We 20 have performance measurement and 21 quality management systems that are 22 cruel compared to those in the 23 community, and they're typically not 24 constructive. 25 There's very poor transfer Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 90 1 of medical information from the 2 community to the prison and from the 3 prison back to the community, in large 4 part, because of our medical 5 recordkeeping techniques. And there's 6 often very poor communication between 7 agencies, leadership, and correctional 8 healthcare practitioners. In large 9 part, because of the different styles 10 that we train them. 11 Prison and jails, typically, 12 are command control environments where 13 uncertainty is unacceptable. In 14 medicine and in nursing and psychology, 15 we -- we thrive on uncertainty. We 16 train to live within uncertainty. So 17 there's often conflicting style and 18 personality between well-trained 19 doctors and nurses and well-trained 20 correctional leaders. 21 So we have some challenges 22 ahead, generally, in correctional 23 healthcare and then challenges, 24 specific, in my opinion, to the 25 implementation of -- of standards. Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 91 1 First of all, the majority of 2 correctional agencies are accreditation 3 naive. They're not comfortable with 4 quantitative performance measurement in 5 they loath to be self-critical, 6 especially if they have to write it 7 down. If they have to write down what 8 may have gone wrong so we can learn 9 from that and make things better in the 10 future. Behind bars, there's a vast 11 cultural and bureaucratic resistance to 12 oversight, especially oversight by 13 outsiders. Preparation for 14 certification or to meet any standards 15 takes resources, resources like time, 16 training, and recordkeeping, which are 17 often not made available by legislative 18 bodies. 19 And there are also some very 20 legitimate concerns by health 21 professionals, regarding the 22 consequences of reporting episodes of 23 sexual violence. First of all, there 24 are these tensions between the command 25 control environment where sex is not Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 92 1 allow. So the risk of disclosing that 2 sex has occurred, particularly 3 nonviolent, coercive sexual 4 victimization. There's a risk, A, the 5 custody staff may want to minimize 6 these episodes of sexual behavior and 7 victimization. But also, there's the 8 risk that disclosure will lead to 9 punishment. Because if a sexual victim 10 has been involved -- has been a victim 11 over a period of time, where it may 12 have the appearance of being 13 consensual, even though there is no 14 such thing as consensual sex behind 15 bars, that victim could be punished for 16 having participated in sexual activity 17 without reporting it. 18 Another tension that we're 19 going to have -- if we have standards 20 that require intake assessments to be 21 done asking for histories of sexual 22 violence, we can take -- assessments 23 are often done by custody staff, by 24 uniformed staff and not by healthcare 25 staff, so there's a real risk there. Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 93 1 It's a challenge for victims to 2 disclose that kind of information. And 3 there's a potential ethical dilemma to 4 maintain the confidentiality of medical 5 information, such as recent sexual 6 encounters, and the public safety duty 7 to report that to prevent harm to that 8 individual patient or to prevent harm 9 to other patients, if there's a sexual 10 predator in the midst. 11 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 12 I think I will follow the 13 practice of letting questions be asked 14 after each group of panelist at this 15 point, otherwise, we're going to have a 16 blurred situation in the Commissioners' 17 minds, right though they may be. So I 18 will simply ask, does anybody have a 19 question of this witness? 20 COMMISSIONER SMITH: 21 So, Chairman, we're going to 22 ask questions now? 23 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 24 Please do. 25 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 94 1 Okay. Just one question for 2 Dr. Greifinger. In terms of -- you 3 know, we've actually heard lots of 4 information about ethical, legal 5 obligations around maintaining 6 confidentiality and sort of the tension 7 with custody and control. 8 How do those obligations 9 work in a correctional environment 10 when, I believe, that all staff, 11 including medical staff, are required 12 to report things that affects safety 13 and security of the institution? I 14 mean, how do medical professionals deal 15 with that? 16 MR. GREIFINGER: 17 With difficulty. It's one 18 of the big differences between the 19 practice of medicine in the community 20 and the practice of medicine behind 21 bars. Most physicians will tell you 22 that their first obligation, their 23 first duty, is to do no harm to their 24 patient. And that's been an ethical 25 tenant for thousands of years in Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 95 1 medicine. So it's very difficult to 2 violate patient confidentiality, 3 particularly if that violation might 4 cause real harm, like punishment, to 5 the person who shares the information. 6 So it's a -- it's a very big challenge 7 situation. 8 COMMISSIONER SMITH: 9 Do you have any sense about 10 what people do? I guess that's what 11 I'm really asking you. 12 DR. GREIFINGER: 13 My sense is that they -- 14 they -- correctional doctors are very 15 reluctant to report. Very, very 16 reluctant to report. It's very hard 17 for them to see the other side of the 18 story, and that is their responsibility 19 for -- for public safety, and should 20 try to prevent this harm from -- from 21 coming to others. 22 COMMISSIONER SMITH: 23 And so they may not report? 24 DR. GREIFINGER: 25 Yes. Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 96 1 COMMISSIONER PURYEAR: 2 I just have one quick 3 question. I hear what you're saying 4 about the disconnect between 5 correctional medicine and medicine in 6 the general community. Isn't there 7 another problem, too, that the sites 8 where many facilities are located in 9 the mental health area, in particular 10 finding a well-trained psychiatrist or 11 psychologist in those areas to help 12 treat the inmates is difficult for any 13 correctional system. And -- is that 14 your observations, and do you have any 15 suggestions about ways, like 16 telemedicine or things that could be 17 used to help improve on the situation? 18 DR. GREIFINGER: 19 Well, geography is certainly 20 a problem. We have competing interest, 21 typically -- let's say for state 22 prisons. State prisons are built where 23 there's a strong lobby to help develop 24 the economy of the communities. It 25 brings jobs and brings money. But Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 97 1 those tend to be communities that don't 2 have much medical care so it becomes 3 very difficult. 4 Telemedicine has been 5 helpful, particularly for psychiatry, 6 across the country. It's not been so 7 successful in other areas. There's 8 some spots where it works really well. 9 I still think there's hope for it. 10 But what we have to really 11 be making decisions about is why we're 12 locking up so many people, why we're 13 locking up so many people who 14 disproportionately have mental illness 15 and who disproportionately, those with 16 mental illness get involved in sexual 17 victimization on one side or the other. 18 I think we have to think about those 19 broad policy issues first. But 20 certainly not skirt the realities of 21 the allocation of healthcare researches 22 in the communities. 23 I find that the quality of 24 leadership in a facility has the most 25 to do with the recruitment and the Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 98 1 retention of good staff. And that's 2 whether it be in the big county jails 3 with 10,000 inmates or in -- or in the 4 suburban counties and small prisons in 5 rural areas. 6 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 7 Do you -- do you have a 8 thought that, in developing our 9 standards, the Commission should pay 10 some special attention to a problem to 11 which you allude to about reluctance to 12 report, reluctance by staff who have 13 knowledge, particularly in a case of -- 14 where somebody may be mentally 15 challenged, emotionally challenged, as 16 well as being victimized? Is there 17 some way a -- would you -- I can't 18 think of it right now. But if you have 19 some thoughts about helping us with 20 standards to develop, which pertains to 21 right now -- 22 DR. GREIFINGER: 23 I think it's one of the most 24 important things you can do, and I 25 would certainly be happy to help work Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 99 1 with you on that. It's a terrible 2 dilemma. You can just imagine if you 3 have a relationship with a therapist 4 and your therapist says be open, and 5 you say, okay. I'll be open but, 6 please, you've got to keep this between 7 us. 8 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 9 We do. We're -- we're right 10 into that sort of thing now. And so I 11 would ask the staff that's here 12 maybe -- Dr. Greifinger before he 13 exits. 14 Dr. DeGroot. 15 MR. DeGROOT: 16 Good morning, Commissioner. 17 Thank you. It's an honor to be here 18 today sharing with your experiences, 19 challenges, and lessons learned from 20 the Georgia Department of Corrections, 21 which I'm going to refer to is GDC, in 22 our attempt to eliminate prison rape. 23 My testimony is based on my 24 oversight of the mental health program 25 that's treating 8200 mentally ill Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 100 1 prisoners, and on my history with a 2 1992 amended civil rights complaint, 3 namely Cason v. Seckinger, which was 4 filed by a certified class of female 5 prisoners alleging rape, sexual 6 assault, coerced sexual activity, 7 involuntary abortions, retaliation for 8 not participated in sexual activity, 9 and inadequate medical and mental 10 healthcare. 11 The complaint never went to 12 trial, however, GDC revised a number of 13 its past practices and standard 14 operating procedures, to include 15 medical and mental health standard 16 operating procedures. We learned a lot 17 of lessons from Cason v. Seckinger. 18 I'd like organize my testimony around 19 one of those lessons. That lesson 20 arose from our analyses of our mental 21 health database, which was created 22 during Cason. 23 The lesson is that mentally 24 ill prisoners are disproportionately 25 represented among sexual perpetrators Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 101 1 and victims. For example, as recently 2 as calendar year '06, we had 15 percent 3 of the general population receiving 4 mental health services. We also had 70 5 percent of the investigated sexual 6 assault victims and 62 percent of the 7 perpetrators receiving mental health 8 services when the assaults took place. 9 Another database reveal 10 that, among those currently in GDC who 11 have ever received a sexual assault 12 disciplinary report, 58 percent were 13 receiving mental health services when 14 they committed the assault. These 15 findings are compelling, and they're 16 being further analyzed before we make 17 problematic changes. However, one 18 lesson that is clear, even before doing 19 further analyses, is that we need 20 quality mental health delivery systems. 21 The following eight program 22 elements, if present -- if present, 23 helped us provide quality services to 24 assault victims and conversely, if 25 absent, hampered service delivery. Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 102 1 Number one, an executive 2 management team that conveys the 3 importance of the sexual assault 4 elimination program to middle 5 management and line staff. Number two, 6 a sexual assault investigation team 7 that's independent from a local 8 grievance investigation. Three, mental 9 health SOP's that are clearly written 10 and aligned with both medical and 11 investigation SOP's. Four, adequate 12 staffing patterns. Five, training 13 programs for prisoners and for staff. 14 Six, a mechanism that identifies 15 prisoners who have a history of sexual 16 victimization and/or gradation. Seven, 17 oversight procedures that review SOP 18 compliance and quality of care. And 19 eight, mental health database on sexual 20 allegations that identifies the number 21 of critical barrier bolts. 22 Challenges -- or barriers of 23 adequate mental health delivery system 24 can be categorized into three areas, 25 resource barriers, prisoner barriers, Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 103 1 and institutional barriers. 2 Resource barriers include 3 not having enough clinicians or not 4 having enough experienced clinicians. 5 when staff are short, the squeaky wheel 6 gets the grease, namely the mental 7 health emergencies. SOP corners are 8 cut by reducing non-emergent 9 programming and training and oversight, 10 such as continuous quality improvement. 11 Likewise, when inexperienced staff 12 evaluate and treat psychologically 13 complex prisoners, they often make a 14 bad situation worse, despite their best 15 efforts and good intentions. 16 Prisoner barriers include 17 stigma, fear of retaliation, staff 18 distrust, and dread of protective 19 custody. Stigma, especially with male 20 prisoners, is a gigantic barrier for 21 sexual assault victims who are seeking 22 help. The reason this is such a 23 gigantic barrier is because, if there's 24 one place males don't want to appear 25 emotionally and physically weak, it's Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 104 1 in prison. Unfortunately, if and when 2 assault victims overcome the barrier of 3 stigma, they're confronted with three 4 more barriers, namely fear of 5 retaliation, distrust of staff, and 6 dread of protective custody. 7 Institutional barriers 8 include staff bias, such as confusing 9 sexual orientation with consent and 10 attributing allegation to deception and 11 manipulation. And number two, a sense 12 of futility among some mental health 13 staff. Feeling as if prisoners are 14 hopeless sense, quote, they have a 15 personality disorder which their 16 parents, teachers, counselors, and 17 preachers were unable to fix. 18 The strategy is to overcome 19 these barriers include, one, using 20 multiple oversight mechanisms, and, 21 two, adopting a public health model. 22 Oversight mechanisms consist 23 of internal and external audits, peer 24 reviews, CQI, and utilization review. 25 A public health approach consists of, Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 105 1 A, promoting health through education, 2 and, B, preventing sexual assaults by 3 identifying and tracking perpetrators 4 and victims, and, C, treating mental 5 illness with qualified providers and 6 best practices. 7 Thanks for your 8 attention. On behalf of GDC, I'd like 9 to express appreciation for the work 10 you're doing. I'd also like to say 11 that we look forward to continuing to 12 support the Commission in any way we 13 can. 14 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 15 One question to clarify 16 something for me, Dr. DeGroot. 8200 17 inmates are -- is the population of, 18 what? 19 MR. DeGROOT: 20 Right now we have 21 approximately 54', 55,000 inmates in 22 Georgia Department of Corrections. 23 Of that population, 16 percent, or 24 8,200, are receiving mental health 25 services, have been diagnosed with a Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 106 1 mental illness. 2 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 3 And is there a central -- I 4 don't know if I'd call it 5 administration -- management of 6 healthcare for those 8200 identified 7 people with mental health problems for 8 the whole system? 9 MR. DeGROOT: 10 I'm not -- 11 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 12 Or is it done entirely on a 13 local facility basis? 14 MR. DeGROOT: 15 No, sir. It's centralized. 16 We have a set of standard operating 17 procedures that the whole system uses 18 in the delivery of mental health 19 services to these -- to these inmates. 20 We have mental health programs in 31 21 facilities, sir. 22 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 23 And are these folks in the 24 field reporting to the central -- your 25 administration, or are they reporting Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 107 1 through the line officers and the line 2 staff and the warden of the facility? 3 MR. DeGROOT: 4 The direct line of reporting 5 is to the warden of the facility. We 6 provide, in central office, oversight 7 and technical support. 8 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 9 If someone were to ask you 10 whether you thought having a direct 11 line of reporting to your office with 12 information to -- rather than line 13 reporting to line staff at the 14 facility, what would you say to that? 15 MR. DeGROOT: 16 Yes, sir. I've been in central 17 office for 13 years now, and during all 18 13 years we've been discussing this 19 issue. I can see merits both ways. If 20 they reported directly to me, I'd need 21 a lot larger staff than I have right 22 now, sir. 23 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 24 Thank you. I understand. I 25 think we'll -- it's something I think Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 108 1 we will want to think about, in terms 2 of our standards of -- it's the whole 3 matter of quality control in a 4 manufacturer facility. If you want to 5 take it into business, is it a quality 6 control group at the factory report to 7 the head of the plant or does he or she 8 report to a central quality control 9 function for the corporation? 10 MR. DeGROOT: 11 Right. The -- the way we 12 get around that is mental health is 13 part of the Department of Health 14 Services, which reports to the 15 commissioner. So we are free from 16 reporting to custody in central office. 17 And we conduct an annual audits -- now, 18 these are compliance audits and quality 19 of care audits -- at all 31 facilities. 20 And we expect them to also do 21 self-audits. Self- audits are done 22 three months before our central office 23 audit. We want to make sure they can 24 oversee themselves. And then we 25 contract for external audits also, Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 109 1 annually. 2 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 3 Okay. So, I mean, it is 4 good that your office reports to, let's 5 say, a non-inhouse. But the people in 6 the field report through the in-house 7 staff. Thank you. 8 MR. DeGROOT: 9 Yes, sir. 10 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 11 Are there any -- are there 12 other Commissioners with questions for 13 Dr. DeGroot? 14 Yes, Pat. 15 COMMISSIONER NOLAN: 16 Dr. DeGroot, the statistics, 17 I think, will be very helpful to us in 18 talking about this and the impact of 19 incarceration of the mentally ill. And 20 so I just want to get them straight. 21 Sixteen percent have a diagnosis mental 22 health condition? 23 MR. DeGROOT: 24 Yes, sir. 25 COMMISSIONER NOLAN: Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 110 1 And 70 percent of the 2 victims sexual abuse have -- are 3 diagnosed? 4 MR. DeGROOT: 5 70 percent of the cases that 6 were investigated for sexual abuse. 7 COMMISSIONER NOLAN: 8 And then 58 percent of the 9 perpetrators are -- 10 MR. DeGROOT: 11 62 percent -- 12 COMMISSIONER NOLAN: 13 Yeah, thank you. 14 MR. DeGROOT: 15 -- were perpetrators. 16 COMMISSIONER NOLAN: 17 Thank you. 18 COMMISSIONER FELLNER: 19 Can I just followup on that? 20 We've heard a lot about 21 victims of sexual abuse. And there's 22 actually been very little research, and 23 we've heard very little testimony, 24 actually, about perpetrators. And I 25 assume here we're talking about inmate Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 111 1 perpetrators not staff perpetrators. 2 And I wonder if your -- if you have 3 anything you want to add, or maybe our 4 staff can talk to you about what you 5 have learned and what services you 6 provide to inmates who have been 7 perpetrators. You say there are -- 8 there's a very high percentage of them 9 who are in the mental health caseload. 10 Can you provide any other information 11 to us about who and why the inmates are 12 who perpetrate? 13 MR. DeGROOT: 14 One of the things I also 15 mentioned was that this population is 16 very complex. It's a complicated 17 population to work with. And when you 18 start taking their histories, you 19 discover a lot of them have been 20 victims of physical and/or sexual 21 abuse. 22 COMMISSIONER FELLNER: 23 The perpetrators? 24 MR. DeGROOT: 25 To -- not just the -- all Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 112 1 mental health inmates. All prisoners 2 receiving mental health services. 3 We did a study back in the 4 late 90s, males and females, and we 5 discovered that, at Metro State Prison 6 in Atlanta, one of our larger female 7 facilities, 87 percent of the women 8 receiving mental health services 9 reported a positive history of physical 10 and/or sexual abuse. And likewise, 11 with males, we discovered 56 percent of 12 the males reported a positive history 13 of physical and/or sexual abuse. 14 Now, we discovered that as 15 the severity of the mental illness goes 16 up, so does the -- the reporting of 17 physical and sexual abuse. So what we 18 have are perpetrators who are both 19 victims and perpetrators. We run 20 groups for perpetrators. We run groups 21 for -- for victims. And one of the 22 things we do with identification is, 23 obviously, try to -- try to keep them 24 separate. 25 CHAIRMAN KANEB: Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 113 1 Jimmy? 2 COMMISSIONER AIKEN: 3 Yes. Just one quick 4 question, sir. 5 And my understanding is that 6 you are part of a state correctional 7 system; is that correct? 8 MR. DeGROOT: 9 Yes, sir. 10 COMMISSIONER AIKEN: 11 And most of the people -- 12 this is an assumption and you can 13 validate it if -- if it is appropriate. 14 That most of the people that you have 15 that's entering your system has been or 16 have been confined for a period of time 17 prior to adjudication; is that correct? 18 MR. DeGROOT: 19 Yes, sir. 20 COMMISSIONER AIKEN: 21 Now, what type of 22 relationship or what type of 23 information that you have available to 24 to you, with this new population coming 25 in, in relationship to their mental Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 114 1 health status, treatment plan, 2 medication, things of this nature? 3 What kind of shape are these people in 4 once they have been received by -- by 5 your agency? 6 MR. DeGROOT: 7 At intake, they receive a 8 mental health screen given to them by a 9 master degree mental health counselor 10 within 24 hours of entering the system. 11 If there's a history of receiving 12 mental health services, we ask them to 13 sign a release of information, so we 14 can obtain records from wherever they 15 received those services. 16 This is a good question. 17 We're struggling with this right now, 18 because there are a lot of disconnects 19 in the public mental health system. 20 The governor has convened a mental 21 health commission about four months 22 ago. The commissioner of corrections 23 sits on that commission, and I 24 accompany him to most meetings. And 25 one of the things we're trying to do is Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 115 1 increase connection or communication 2 between community mental health 3 services, state hospital, jails, and 4 the prison system. There's a big 5 disconnect between the jails and the 6 prison. 7 Right now in Georgia we have 8 159 counties, 157 jails. The sheriffs 9 are struggling trying to provide 10 medication and treatment for the 11 mentally ill coming into their jails. 12 One of the things we're looking at with 13 this mental health commission is 14 establishing one mental health 15 authority, a cabinet position that 16 would have budgetary authority and 17 authority over procedures for public 18 mental health in -- in these states. 19 So that would be over the state 20 hospitals, over community mental 21 health, mental health services in the 22 jails and in the prison systems. 23 COMMISSIONER AIKEN: 24 Thank you, sir. 25 Thank you, sir, Mr. Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 116 1 Chairman. 2 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 3 Commissioner Puryear. 4 COMMISSIONER PURYEAR: 5 I just want to followup on 6 John's line of questioning from a few 7 moments ago. 8 One of the things that -- I 9 don't mean to get us down into too much 10 of the details. But you talk about the 11 audit process that you go through as 12 providing some assurance about the 13 quality of the operations. I take it, 14 if a self-audit is done three months 15 prior that the facility knows when 16 you're coming to audit them, in every 17 evident? 18 MR. DeGROOT: 19 This is like an open-book 20 test. The -- every facility has a copy 21 of the audit, and the audit schedule is 22 published a year in advance, along with 23 the self-audits. 24 COMMISSIONER PURYEAR: 25 Have you ever been concerned Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 117 1 that someone could be penciled in the 2 files into shape right before you get 3 there, and kind of spruce up the place 4 a bit? 5 MR. DeGROOT: 6 That's always a concern. We 7 take a whole team -- a large team to do 8 this audit. We spend three, sometimes, 9 four days. We interview prisoners and 10 staff, medical and mental health staff, 11 and we expect a corrective action plan 12 to be done, and we go and followup 13 after we receive -- after they -- after 14 we receive the corrective action plan. 15 About three months after we receive it, 16 we followup and see the implementation, 17 and we will continue following up if we 18 have any suspicions. 19 We are in the field quite a 20 bit, so we're -- we're on top, pretty 21 much, of which programs have what kind 22 of problems. 23 COMMISSIONER PURYEAR: 24 Last question for you. 25 If -- if the mental health Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 118 1 professionals report to the warden, how 2 would you assess the average warden's 3 capabilities as a manager of mental 4 health delivery services? 5 MR. DeGROOT: 6 Some of them are very good, 7 and some of them, there's a lot of room 8 for improvement. I've been asked to 9 speak at the warden meetings quarterly, 10 and I'd like to think we're making 11 ground. 12 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 13 Thank you, Dr. DeGroot. 14 Are there -- yes. Yes, 15 Commissioner Smith. 16 COMMISSIONER SMITH: 17 This is actually not a -- a 18 question, but really just a thanks to 19 the Georgia Department of Corrections 20 for its leadership in this area around 21 mental health and also around medical 22 issues as well. I think that the 23 Commission noted and was very gratified 24 by the Georgia Department of 25 Corrections' participation in the study Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 119 1 around HIV sterile conversion in 2 institutional settings. And I believe 3 that that has been very helpful in 4 forming our work. 5 MR. DeGROOT: 6 I appreciate the feedback, 7 Commissioner. 8 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 9 Thanks. If there are no 10 other questions -- yes, Pat. 11 COMMISSIONER NOLAN: 12 You mentioned that intake, 13 that the inmates are interviewed by a 14 mental health professional. Is that 15 every inmate coming into the system? 16 MR. DeGROOT: 17 Yes, sir. Within 24 hours, 18 they are screened eye-to-eye by a 19 mental health counselor with a master's 20 degree. 21 COMMISSIONER AIKEN: 22 Just one quick question, 23 sir. 24 And that's more of a -- 25 self-report, in relationship to a Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 120 1 criminal -- I mean, a professional 2 person that's trained to look at those 3 particular behavior patterns, et 4 cetera; is that correct? 5 MR. DeGROOT: 6 yes, sir. That's 7 correct. 8 COMMISSIONER AIKEN: 9 Okay. Is there anything in 10 your auditing process that you look at, 11 critical events, you look at what went 12 wrong, and is there a mechanism to 13 address that and incorporate it in 14 policy changing as well as training of 15 staff, et cetera? 16 MR. DeGROOT: 17 One of the big lessons we 18 learned from Cason v. Seckinger is to 19 provide a lot of oversight, so we do 20 that during audits. We also have a 21 continuous quality improvement program 22 where we follow NCCHC guidelines 23 mandating a quarterly report, for 24 example, use of seclusion, use of 25 restraint, use of involuntary Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 121 1 medication. We have logs sent to 2 central office, along with CQI reports. 3 And then we collect a lot of data. 4 Data is sent to me, to 5 central office, monthly. And we use 6 this data to identify outliers in the 7 system. Once we identify outliers, we 8 will go and work with the facility 9 to -- to explore the reasons for it, 10 and then bring about any corrections. 11 In terms of changing policy, 12 all policies are reviewed annually, 13 which means we're constantly reviewing 14 policies and updating them manually. 15 COMMISSIONER AIKEN: 16 Thank you, sir. 17 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 18 Thank you, Doctor. One 19 more. 20 Commissioner Smith. 21 COMMISSIONER SMITH: 22 You know, just a very -- a 23 very obvious question. Are you still 24 under supervision under Cason versus 25 Seckinger? Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 122 1 MR. DeGROOT: 2 The mental health portion of 3 Cason v. Seckinger was closed in '98, 4 Commissioner. 5 COMMISSIONER SMITH: 6 But I guess -- it sounds 7 like, based on it -- even though it 8 might have been a very, I guess, 9 negative event, it sounds like you guys 10 have made sort of lemonade out of 11 lemons; is that fair to say? 12 MR. DeGROOT: 13 Yes, Commissioner. We tried 14 to -- and we continue to struggle. The 15 problem is, once you get out from under 16 oversight -- 17 COMMISSIONER SMITH: 18 Right. 19 MR. DeGROOT: 20 -- a lot of times budget 21 starts to be cut. So it's a constant 22 struggle to maintain the policies and 23 procedures at -- at the level you 24 initially wrote them at. And we've 25 been able to do that, to include Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 123 1 keeping our audit instrument, but -- 2 but it's been a struggle. 3 In fact, yesterday we were 4 in front of the House Appropriations 5 Committee pleading our case, and it 6 looked -- it looks positive for this 7 year, although it's been lean the past 8 few years. 9 COMMISSIONER FELLNER: 10 Dr. DeGroot, I just wanted 11 to add that I know that we have a very 12 short question time here. And as with 13 Dr. Greifinger, your prepared comments 14 are dense and rich of information for 15 us. And I'm hoping and know that our 16 staff will be in touch with you further 17 to mind, and hope you don't feel 18 frustrated by the gravity that's forced 19 by the time here. 20 MR. DeGROOT: 21 No. Thank you, 22 Commissioner. 23 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 24 Thank you, Dr. DeGroot. 25 Ms. Pierce-Weeks. Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 124 1 MS. PIERCE-WEEKS: 2 Good morning. I thank you 3 very much for the honor of being able 4 to speak to you today and give you some 5 opinions as the International 6 Association of Forensic Nurse. I've 7 been a practicing sexual assault 8 nursing examiner myself. 9 Just as way of introduction, 10 although I suspect that ya'll know this 11 at this point, SANE, sexual assault 12 nurse examiners and sexual assault 13 forensic examiners make up the majority 14 of our membership. We have 3,000 nurse 15 members internationally, and they are 16 registered nurses who are specially 17 trained in the comprehensive care of 18 sexual assault patients. 19 The IFN has designed 20 education guidelines associated with 21 what needs to happen in order to be 22 trained as a sexual assault nurse 23 examiner in both for the adult as well 24 as the pediatric population. And 25 really, the practice of SANE, nursing Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 125 1 was created from the recognition by 2 nursing that the impact of sexual 3 violence on the human person has 4 enormous psychological, physical, 5 spiritual, and social effects as, 6 obviously, evidenced by everyone's 7 testimony here today. 8 The health and well-being of 9 our patients, their families, and 10 communities is both acutely and 11 chronically impacted by their sexual 12 victimization. And by the same token, 13 as SANE nurses, receiving compassionate 14 care at the time of the assault by an 15 appropriately trained examiner, can 16 assist all victims in their short and 17 long-term healing process. 18 With that in mind, the 19 organization representing the largest 20 group of nurses caring for victims of 21 sexual assault would make the following 22 suggestions to -- to the Commission. 23 One, that any -- and this is 24 regarding protocols involving provision 25 of care to sexual assault victims, Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 126 1 inmates, whether or not the perpetrator 2 is another inmate or a staff person. 3 One, that safety of the same should be 4 a priority in any -- any examiner, who 5 may be requested to respond to a 6 correctional facility, should receive 7 specialized education about the unique 8 issues that may impact the safety and 9 well-being of the nurse or any other 10 examiner who provide care to the 11 special population. 12 It's obvious to us, in this 13 practice, that most nurses, even as 14 SANE nurses are not necessarily trained 15 in the specialty of the correctional 16 facility and what those patients 17 require in boundary issues, et cetera, 18 so. 19 Two, safety of the 20 community. The healthcare providers 21 and the patient should be a priority 22 when any patient is brought to an 23 outside facility for sexual assault, 24 which is often the case, in many 25 communities. Certainly, in my own Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 127 1 community. 2 Correctional institutions 3 should use appropriately trained sexual 4 assault forensic examiners whether or 5 not they're nurses to provide care to 6 the victims in a manner that 7 efficiently uses institutional and 8 community resources and provides timely 9 care and evidence collection to the 10 patient as time is of the essence, if 11 prosecution is one of your goals. 12 Protocols for care must be 13 consistent with the scope of practice 14 defined by the Nurse Practice Act, if 15 nurses are the ones providing the care 16 in the state where the nurse is 17 licensed. And in any protocol for 18 response for victims of sexual assault 19 should incorporate the standards 20 described in the National Protocol for 21 Sexual Assault Medical Forensic 22 Examination when appropriate. Because 23 there is a national standard for care 24 for these patient populations. 25 So just keeping it brief and Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 128 1 knowing your time, I would entertain 2 any questions and say that the 3 International Association is very much 4 invested in working with the Commission 5 in any way we can to assist you in your 6 mission. Thank you very much. 7 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 8 Questions? 9 Yes, Commissioner Smith. 10 COMMISSIONER SMITH: 11 One of the things -- thank 12 you for your -- for your testimony. 13 One of the things we have 14 heard consistently is that having a 15 SANE nurse perform the examination is 16 really the goal standard, right? And I 17 guess what I'd be interested in is, in 18 those situations where a SANE nurse is 19 not available, what suggestions or what 20 would you offer, particularly in rural 21 facilities or other facilities where 22 it's just not there? You know, what 23 would you offer or what could you offer 24 in terms of what agencies should do? 25 MS. PIERCE-WEEKS: Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 129 1 That's a great question and 2 very appropriate, because there are 3 certainly communities throughout the 4 country that do not have a capacity to 5 have trained SANE nurses. But that -- 6 that should not preclude, whoever your 7 examiner is, whether it's a nurse, 8 physician, PA, PO, whatever the title, 9 from getting additional education in 10 the medical forensic aspect of care. 11 That doesn't mean it has to be a 12 week-long training in the comprehensive 13 care. But certainly, training that can 14 hit the highlights for those 15 communities that aren't going to be 16 able to really realistically employ 17 SANE nurses. 18 COMMISSIONER SMITH: 19 And how would they get that 20 training? Would they get that 21 nationally through your organization, 22 or are there local resources where they 23 could do that? And has your 24 organization developed anything that 25 sort of talks about, if you're not Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 130 1 going to be a SANE, what are other core 2 kind of training you would need to 3 have? 4 MS. PIERCE-WEEKS: 5 Actually, there are both 6 resources through our organization 7 nationally and probably local 8 resources, depending on the community. 9 Many communities have 10 established SANE programs or safe 11 programs where a part of their program 12 is providing community education, both 13 to the lay community but also to the 14 professional community, such as your 15 correctional facilities as well as any 16 other members of the multidisciplinary 17 team that works with sexual assault 18 victims. So you could certainly get 19 information from us, and we would 20 absolutely be prepared to assist you 21 with that as an organization. 22 But I suspect we can also direct local 23 communities to their own local 24 resources and nurses available to them, 25 who would be happy to help out. Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 131 1 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 2 Other questions of 3 Ms. Pierce-Weeks? 4 Commissioner Nolan, yes. 5 COMMISSIONER NOLAN: 6 How are recruitment 7 conditions for SANE nurses, is it -- 8 especially, you know, for a prison 9 setting? Is it difficult? Are there 10 barriers? Are there things that we 11 could do to help? 'Cause they do seem 12 so critically important to the victims. 13 MS. PIERCE-WEEKS: 14 There are recruitment issues 15 regarding sexual assault nurse 16 examiners nationally, whether or not 17 the setting is at a correctional 18 facility, in truth. Just because this 19 is not a patient population that, 20 generally speaking, the medical 21 community is thrilled to take care of 22 for a variety of reasons. So, yeah, 23 there's a challenge. Absolutely. 24 With the second part of your 25 question was -- Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 132 1 COMMISSIONER NOLAN: 2 Can you tell me what some of 3 those barriers are? It would not be 4 just in the correction setting. But if 5 there are any, in particular, in a 6 correction setting, that would be 7 helpful to us. 8 MS. PIERCE-WEEKS: 9 Well, one of the things that 10 we -- because, obviously, we went to 11 our membership and chatted with them 12 about this very day and what challenges 13 they face in some of the correctional 14 settings that exist now that do have 15 nurses employed. 16 One of the challenges that 17 was voiced is the perceived -- and I 18 would strongly -- that really is the 19 keyword, the perceived conflict of 20 interest caring for an inmate sexual 21 assault victim while being employed by 22 the Department of Corrections or, you 23 know, the agency. And truly from a 24 nursing perspective, not being able to 25 speak for the other medical Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 133 1 professions, that is a perceived 2 conflict of interest. It is not a true 3 one, because when I practice on my 4 license, as any other registered nurse 5 in any state in this country, my 6 true -- I am truly there as a person to 7 provide care for the patient, the 8 community, and the families that we 9 serve. And while the Department of 10 Corrections, or in my case the hospital 11 employs me and they pay me, my 12 obligation is to my license and, 13 therefore, to that patient. So the 14 perception of conflict of interest, I 15 think is something that should 16 seriously be looked at, and really some 17 resource toward educating those -- 18 those nurses about the fact that there 19 really is no conflict of interest, 20 though there may be system problems for 21 them bringing forward issues of 22 victimization within the correctional 23 setting. Does that make sense? 24 COMMISSIONER NOLAN: 25 Yes. Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 134 1 MS. PIERCE-WEEKS: 2 That's probably the largest 3 thing we've heard for barriers. 4 COMMISSIONER NOLAN: 5 Thank you. 6 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 7 Commissioner 8 Struckman-Johnson. 9 COMMISSIONER STRUCKMAN-JOHNSON: 10 You aroused my curiosity. 11 Why are sexual assault victims not 12 welcomed by the medical community? 13 MS. PIERCE-WEEKS: 14 well, several different 15 reasons. One is many times the patient 16 population who are victimized tend to 17 be vulnerable populations in the first 18 place. The correctional facility, 19 being one of the greatest examples of 20 this, the mental health issues that 21 have been discussed today. Many 22 victims come to the table having 23 already been victimized, having already 24 established their alcohol and drug 25 problems, their clinical depression, Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 135 1 their -- the list goes on and on. 2 And so they can be challenging to take 3 care of. But I think one of the other 4 difficulties for the medical community 5 is, when you take care of a sexual 6 assault victim, you assume from the 7 get-go you may end up in court 8 testifying. That is not a place of 9 comfort for the medical community, 10 because they're much more trained in 11 malpractice in court than they are 12 testifying, in truth, than they are 13 testifying to the care the patient was 14 given. 15 COMMISSIONER STRUCKMAN-JOHNSON: 16 Any issue of prejudice of 17 male patients with male assault 18 perpetrators? Is that the idea of 19 dealing with the male on male sexual 20 assault problem attitude-wise or -- 21 MS. PIERCE-WEEKS: 22 From the nurse examiner's 23 perspective? 24 COMMISSIONER STRUCKMAN-JOHNSON: 25 Yeah. Through that, are Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 136 1 you -- 2 MS. PIERCE-WEEKS: 3 Absolutely. We are prepared 4 for the male victim and they're 5 definitely a part of the training. Of 6 course, I would say the biggest issue 7 for us in that regard is getting them 8 to come forward and tell us. 9 COMMISSIONER STRUCKMAN-JOHNSON: 10 All right. Thank you. 11 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 12 If there are no other 13 questions for Ms. Pierce-Weeks, we will 14 move on to Dr. Linthicum. 15 MS. LINTHICUM: 16 Good morning. My name is 17 Dr. Lannette Linthicum. I'm the 18 medical director of the Texas 19 Department of Criminal Justice, which I 20 will refer to as TDCJ. I'm here to 21 give testimony to the Commission on the 22 Texas Department of Criminal Justice 23 Peer Educational Program, and the 24 impact of release in treating victims 25 of sexual assault. Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 137 1 I would like to begin with 2 the Ruiz case. In June of 1972, a 3 Texas offender by the name of David 4 Ruiz filed a handwritten petition with 5 William Wayne Justice, a United States 6 district judge out of the eastern 7 district of Texas, claiming that 8 conditions in the Texas prison system 9 violated his constitutional rights. In 10 April of 1974, the court consolidated 11 eight such offender petitions into a 12 class action lawsuit styled, ruiz 13 versus Estelle. 14 After our FBI investigation, 15 the United States Justice Department 16 intervened and -- intervened in the 17 lawsuit on behalf of the plaintiffs. 18 Approximately, two years later, in 19 November of 1976, another Texas case 20 was decided at the United States 21 Supreme Court, Estelle versus Gamble. 22 This case was the landmark case that 23 set the national standard for 24 correctional medicine. The court 25 decided that deliberate indifference to Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 138 1 a serious medical need constituted the 2 want of infliction of cruel and unusual 3 punishment under the Eighth Amendment 4 of the United States Constitution. 5 Estelle versus Gamble 6 established three basic rights for 7 offenders. The first right is the 8 right to access care. The second right 9 is the right to a professional medical 10 judgment. And the third right is the 11 right to receive the medical care that 12 was ordered. 13 The Ruiz case went to trial 14 in October of 1978. In April of 1981, 15 a final decree was issued in a 16 timetable for implementing the changes 17 required by the decree. A special 18 master was assigned, Attorney Vince 19 Nathan of Toledo, Ohio. 20 Over the next ten years, a 21 series of reforms occurred in the Texas 22 prison system. In March of 1990, the 23 Office of the Special Masters submitted 24 a final report, and the office was 25 dissolved ending active court Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 139 1 supervision. In January of 1991, the 2 Texas Attorney General petitioned the 3 court to terminate the federal court's 4 jurisdiction of Ruiz. In December of 5 1992, Judge Justice signed the final 6 judgment in Ruiz. 7 With regard to healthcare, 8 the final judgment imposed a series of 9 additional reporting requirements which 10 were, number one, to maintain 11 accreditation of all units and regional 12 healthcare facilities. Number two, to 13 ensure that no prisoner is assigned to 14 work that was medically 15 contraindicated. Number three, to 16 ensure full access to healthcare for 17 all prisoners. And number four, to 18 ensure that non-medical staff do not 19 countermand medical orders. And number 20 five, to maintain adequate staffing 21 across all disciplines. 22 In April of 1996, Congress 23 enacted the Prison Litigation Reform 24 Act. In September of 1996, the Texas 25 Attorney General filed a motion to Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 140 1 terminate the Ruiz final consent decree 2 pursuant to the Prison Litigation 3 Reform Act. On January 21st, 1999, the 4 hearing begins and lasted until 5 February 12th of 1999. On June 18th, 6 2001, the federal court ordered the 7 following areas of the Ruiz final 8 judgment were free from court 9 oversight. And those areas were: 10 visitation, crowding, internal 11 monitoring and enforcement, health 12 services, and death row. 13 The reform of the Ruiz 14 litigation transformed the Texas 15 Department of Criminal Justice into a 16 premiere criminal justice agency. All 17 of the internal and external monitoring 18 that Texas went through in the Ruiz 19 years, equipped our system to 20 aggressively embrace the challenges of 21 the Prison Rape Elimination Act. We in 22 Texas are highly committed and 23 especially tenacious in operating a 24 constitutional criminal justice agency. 25 In fact, the health services division Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 141 1 of TDCJ is statutorily required through 2 the provisions of Texas Government Code 3 501.150 to ensure access to care, 4 conduct periodic operational review 5 audits, which are compliance audits, 6 investigate medical grievances, and 7 monitor quality of care and request 8 corrective action. 9 In the area of sexual 10 assault, the TDCJ healthcare program 11 has established a statewide policy. 12 The policy is a part of your handout 13 materials. TDCJ has a sexual assault 14 nurse examiner who is already involved 15 with compliance and quality monitoring. 16 There is also a handout dated 17 11-19-2005 in your handout materials 18 that summarize her activities. 19 Our SANE nurse, with each 20 reported allegation of sexual assault, 21 reviews the medical records and audits 22 it for completeness of the sexual 23 assault evidence collection. She 24 audits to make sure there are referrals 25 to mental health services. She reviews Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 142 1 it for appropriateness of labs, 2 laboratory and her other tasks, and 3 also to ensure that prophylactic 4 medications were offered. If a 5 deficiency is noted, a letter is faxed 6 to the unit health administrator and/or 7 the unit medical director requesting 8 corrective action. 9 I would like to use my final 10 minutes in telling you a little bit 11 about our peer education program. In 12 1998, a collaborative partnership 13 between TDCJ, the University of Texas 14 Medical Branch of Galveston, Texas Tech 15 University Health Science Center, and 16 the AIDS Foundation of Houston, 17 Incorporated was established to conduct 18 a pilot program for HIV/AIDS peer 19 education at five TDCJ institutions. 20 Peer education is a teaching 21 model utilizing offenders to instruct 22 other offenders. It has a high degree 23 of success, due to the powerful 24 influence of the peer group dynamics. 25 Researchers have found that prisoners Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 143 1 are more likely to have a greater 2 degree of trust among each other than 3 they would with correctional staff. 4 After six months, SANE Associates of 5 Houston, Texas evaluated the program. 6 The evaluation results showed a greater 7 knowledge of HIV and AIDS in offenders 8 who have undergone the peer education 9 training. The pilot, needless to say, 10 was a tremendous success and resulted 11 in establishment of the peer education 12 coordinator position in the Health 13 Services Division. This peer education 14 program is supported by our agencies, 15 executive director, and the director of 16 the Correctional Institution Division. 17 TDCJ has 95 peer education programs as 18 of October 31st, 2007. Seven-hundred 19 sixteen offenders peer educators have 20 educated 35,249 offenders. The peer 21 education curriculum includes HIV, 22 tuberculosis, viral hepatitis, and a 23 safe prison module. The classroom 24 education has increased from four hours 25 of instructions, between six and eight Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 144 1 hours. The individual units designed 2 the program to meet their needs in 3 building schedules. The Wyndham School 4 District, which is the formal educator 5 for TDCJ, is collaborating with health 6 services. The offender educators can 7 go to the classrooms and teach the 8 students enrolled in school. Wyndham 9 educates, approximately, 72,000 10 offenders a year. This represent a 11 great opportunity to implement 12 preventive healthcare education and the 13 safe prisons module to a much more 14 broader audiences. Classification has 15 created a full-time job position for 16 peer educators. TDCJ has an annual 17 conference for peer educators. For the 18 safe prisons module -- peer educators 19 receive, as part of their annual 20 update, information on preventing all 21 forms of sexual abuse and 22 victimization. 23 In your handout materials is 24 a white booklet entitled, Safe Prisons 25 Peer Education Training Manual. Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 145 1 Typically, for the conferences, food is 2 served. There is also guest speakers, 3 and the peer educators look forward to 4 this all year. TDCJ completed the 6th 5 annual conference this past October and 6 November. There were five conferences 7 this year held at the Big Oak Justice 8 Reed Smith's Gainesville Unit. 9 The conferences are a huge 10 collaborative effort between Health 11 Services, Correctional Managed 12 Healthcare, the Correctional 13 Institutions Division, and AIDS 14 Foundation, Houston, and the 15 pharmaceuticals industry. 16 Thank you for your time. 17 And I will take any questions. 18 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 19 Thank you, Dr. Linthicum. 20 Are there questions? 21 Commissioner Puryear and 22 Commissioner Smith. 23 COMMISSIONER PURYEAR: 24 Quick question for you along 25 the lines of what Dr. DeGroot was asked Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 146 1 about. After the provisions of Ruiz 2 were terminated, what has been your 3 observations about the level of funding 4 and the level of importance attached to 5 the mental health area? 6 MS. LINTHICUM: 7 As you may know, Texas, we 8 are the second largest state prison 9 system in the country. We have 2,000 10 inpatient mental health beds at four 11 inpatient psychiatric facility. And we 12 have, approximately, 21,000 on our 13 mental health caseloads. We have a big 14 challenge. 15 Primarily, my story is the 16 same as that in Georgia. There's been 17 a breakdown in community mental health, 18 in terms of the disorders that they 19 treat, and so correctional institutions 20 or prisons have become the safety net 21 for the mentally ill. 22 In 1993, the Texas State 23 Legislature implemented a correctional 24 managed healthcare program. All of our 25 healthcare services are contracted to Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 147 1 two of the state's university medical 2 schools. My colleague, who's sitting 3 here, Dr. Ben Raimer, will be telling 4 you a little bit more about that. But 5 the University of Texas Medical Branch 6 provides healthcare to, approximately, 7 120,000 -- 122,000 offenders. And then 8 Texas Tech University Health Science 9 Center of West Texas provides the 10 means -- the remaining healthcare 11 services. And this includes all 12 healthcare services, including 13 specialty care, hospitalization, and 14 the care at the unit level. 15 The mental healthcare is provided by 16 UTMB and Texas Tech healthcare staff. 17 My role as the TDCJ medical 18 director, is one of a contract monitor. 19 And we recently, through this past 20 legislative session, has been tasked in 21 working with the quality of care issues 22 as well. We have a comprehensive 23 quality improvement/quality management 24 program. The program is organized in 25 two different types of structures. Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 148 1 We have a system leadership council. 2 That council is composed of all of the 3 three partner agencies, UTMB, TDCJ, and 4 Texas Tech. The discipline directors, 5 the director of nurses, director of 6 mental health, the medical directors, 7 the pharmacy directors, the medical 8 records personnel, we all meet, and we 9 look at indicators related to access to 10 care, including mental health. We have 11 nine access to care indicators that we 12 study as a system, on a statewide 13 basis. All of the units are required 14 to report in monthly, those data. And 15 I have quality improvement nurse 16 facilitators that then verify that 17 their access to care is correct through 18 the methodology that we've taught to 19 the units. And then we are fortunate 20 to have an electronic medical record. 21 And we can go into the electronic 22 medical record and do a random 23 verification as well. 24 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 25 Doctor, in summary response Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 149 1 to Commissioner Puryear's question, 2 which, I think, he could rephrase. 3 Maybe I will take a shot at it. 4 Notwithstanding the -- I 5 don't know the correct legal term -- 6 the vacating of the right to medical 7 care that was in Ruiz, and that whole 8 system you established to comply with 9 that aspect of Ruiz, notwithstanding 10 that litigation format -- I'm using the 11 word "vacate" as a layman -- are you 12 saying that Texas has -- has carried on 13 just as it was before and -- 14 MS. LINTHICUM: 15 Yes. That's what I'm 16 saying. 17 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 18 Is that the gist of -- 19 MS. LINTHICUM: 20 We have -- we have a whole 21 office of operational review, which is 22 compliance monitoring, yes. 23 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 24 But I think he was getting 25 to, whether or not, that the format Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 150 1 effect has had an affect in Texas 2 delivery of medical care to inmates, 3 and, I think, you're saying no; is that 4 correct? 5 MS. LINTHICUM: 6 We have not changed our 7 day-to-day business. 8 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 9 Is there something -- okay. 10 Commissioner Smith. 11 COMMISSIONER SMITH: 12 Yes. Dr. Linthicum, one of 13 the challenges that I think we -- I 14 think that Ms. Pierce-Weeks talked 15 about it, was working with male 16 survivors of sexual violence. And I 17 wondered -- you know, you've got a -- I 18 was looking at the curriculum here, and 19 I wondered whether you guys have 20 evaluated, you know, sort of what's the 21 process of evaluating the curriculum. 22 And then I guess the second piece is 23 around the services that are available 24 in Texas for male survivors of sexual 25 violence. 'Cause, I know, in many Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 151 1 parts of the country, many places don't 2 provide, you know, services for male 3 survivors. 4 MS. LINTHICUM: 5 Well, as part of our sexual 6 assault policy that we have in health 7 services, any person who is a victim of 8 sexual assault are referred 9 automatically to our mental health 10 services. In there, they primarily 11 receive therapy designed to 12 posttraumatic stress and individual 13 counseling, et cetera. That's 14 determined by the mental healthcare 15 providers. 16 With respect to the 17 curriculum on the safe prison peer 18 education, we are awarded from Sage 19 Associates of Houston. They will be 20 doing an evaluation phase, like they 21 did with the HIV/AIDS module, for us. 22 And that should be coming. 23 COMMISSIONER SMITH: 24 And the other -- again, the 25 question I was asking was really more Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 152 1 about resources in the community. Sort 2 of the whole continuity of care piece, 3 which is, I'm sure, the people that -- 4 that prisoners to the extent that they 5 report and are identified can get 6 services inside, internally. But what 7 has been your experience about after 8 they transition out to the community? 9 MS. LINTHICUM: 10 I have very little 11 experience with respect to services 12 that are available outside. I will 13 tell you in Texas, the legislature, 14 years ago, funded an office called, the 15 Texas Correctional Office on Offenders 16 with Medical and Mental Impairment. 17 That office is funded for continuity of 18 care. They've established a number of 19 MOU's with various state agencies and 20 community-based organizations. And 21 they actually -- we actually have 22 Health and Human Services case workers 23 that come into our prison and do 24 discharge planning and continuity of 25 care services for offenders who are -- Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 153 1 who are near parole. 2 COMMISSIONER SMITH: 3 And the reason that -- John, 4 I just want to say one thing. 5 And the reason that I ask 6 this is 'cause one of the sort of 7 consistent themes that's going through 8 are, the witnesses that we've heard, is 9 sort of the impact of this in the 10 community, you know, the failure to 11 report, internally and then externally. 12 And so that's something that, I think, 13 we as a commission are going to 14 struggle with. 15 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 16 Thank you. 17 MS. LINTHICUM: 18 Can I just say that is not a 19 problem in the Texas system. We view 20 sexual assault as a crime. And just as 21 Ms. Pierce-Weeks said, we're governed 22 by professional ethics and licensing 23 board. And if I, as a physician, 24 worked in an emergency room and a 25 person came in as a victim of sexual Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 154 1 assault, 2 I'm -- I'm duty bound to report that. 3 In Texas, we have an Office 4 of Inspector General. This Office of 5 Inspector General is certified peace 6 officers. They investigate criminal 7 activities and abuse within the prison 8 system. All allegations of sexual 9 assault are investigated, medical 10 staff, witnesses. We provide witness' 11 statements. We participate in our safe 12 prisons council, myself and my mental 13 health director. We are actively 14 engaged in running a safe prison in 15 Texas. 16 COMMISSIONER SMITH: 17 And I'm saying something 18 different though, okay? 19 MS. LINTHICUM: 20 Okay. 21 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 22 Dr. Raimer, please. 23 MR. RAIMER: 24 Thank you, Chairman and 25 Commissioners. I thank you for the Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 155 1 opportunity to speak to you this 2 morning. 3 MY name is Ben Raimer. I'm 4 the vice president and CEO of the 5 University of Texas Medical Branch as 6 the correctional managed healthcare 7 programs. 8 I've been asked to give 9 testimony to this commission on 10 correctional healthcare protocols on 11 our ethical responsibility as 12 practitioners working in corrections, 13 and also on some federal funding 14 opportunities. 15 Offender Healthcare Services 16 at the Texas Department of Criminal 17 Justice, or TDCJ as we commonly call 18 it, is contracted to two of our state's 19 universities, as Dr. Linthicum has 20 pointed out. That's defined in our 21 Texas Government Code, 501.132. 22 The mission of that 23 organization has been to develop a 24 statewide healthcare network that 25 provides offenders with timely access Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 156 1 to constitutional level of care, while 2 at the same time, hopefully, 3 controlling those costs. 4 UTMB has been able to 5 participate in that endeavor as the 6 state's first medical school, founded 7 in 1891. We have historically provided 8 care to vulnerable populations, the 9 poor, the undeserved, as well as the 10 state's offenders. We are the only 11 University Medical Center in the United 12 States, that I know about, that has a 13 full service prison hospital located in 14 the very central part of its campus, 15 that is first and foremost a prison. 16 But it is a hospital of 240 beds also 17 for that population. We provide 18 medical, dental, mental health, and 19 other related services to 126,000 20 offenders. And our colleagues at Texas 21 Tech University in Lubbock provides 22 healthcare to the other 32,000 23 offenders. 24 Together, and taking care 25 of over 160,000 offenders, we have put Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 157 1 together a network of systems that 2 tries to focus less on sick call 3 management and more on the management 4 of chronic disease, primary care 5 access, management of crowded 6 conditions coming into the prison 7 systems, classifying those illnesses 8 using the federal acuity rating system, 9 as well as a network of medical records 10 that are electronic, and telemedicine 11 that permits us to do over 50,000 12 visits per year in that system. 13 The unit based medical staff 14 work in a hand-to-hand fashion with the 15 office of the inspector general that my 16 colleague has mentioned. That OIG, our 17 office of inspector general, addresses 18 allegations of sexual assault that are 19 brought to their attention from a 20 number of sources. When a sexual 21 assault occurs, the offender is 22 immediately taken to the medical 23 department for an evaluation and 24 examination. 25 The Commission has been Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 158 1 provided a copy of the correctional 2 management healthcare policy, G-57.1, 3 entitled, Sexual Assault. The salient 4 highlights of that policy are as 5 follows: A brief history is obtained 6 by the medical staff. The facility 7 physician, are a mid-level 8 practitioner, conducts a physical 9 examination on the offender. If 10 requested by the TDCJ office of 11 inspector general, and if the 12 offender/victim consents to a sexual 13 assault examination, a chain of custody 14 examination, that is a forensic exam, 15 is conducted. 16 In Texas, the law allows the 17 offender to have an approved 18 representative present during the 19 forensic examination. The 20 representative must be approved by the 21 warden and must be, either a 22 psychologist, sociologist, social 23 worker, or case manager. In our 24 system, psychologist and social workers 25 are always health service employees. Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 159 1 All offender/victims of sexual assault 2 are then referred to mental health 3 services for required additional 4 services. We do that through our 5 comprehensive evaluation in counseling 6 services. 7 As my colleague, Dr. 8 Linthicum, said, sexual assault is a 9 crime. In Texas, healthcare staff are 10 obligated to report it as a crime. 11 Healthcare staff report any and all 12 offender allegations of sexual assault 13 to the warden and/or the office of the 14 inspector general, generally, in 15 accordance with executive directive 16 03.03, safe prisons program. 17 In TDCJ, the office of 18 inspector general reports directly to 19 the Board of Criminal Justice. It does 20 not report to our executive director or 21 any other agency head. We feel that 22 that arrangement best serves the office 23 of the inspector general and our 24 system. OIG investigators are all 25 certified peace officers, and their Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 160 1 office investigates allegations of 2 criminal activity and must -- that must 3 be reported. 4 Correctional healthcare 5 providers are obligated to put their 6 offenders/patient's health and their 7 safety first. Moreover, they are 8 obligated to follow the ethical 9 guidelines of their respective 10 professional licensing boards as well 11 as in providing that care to patients. 12 Finally, I would like to 13 close by, hopefully, offering some 14 suggestions for federal support of 15 correctional health, sexual assault 16 initiatives. My colleagues and I have 17 identified the following areas that 18 certainly could benefit from federal 19 funding. 20 Funding is needed for 21 medical and mental health staff 22 training. As you have heard today, 23 there are some confusion in the field 24 about what constitutes sexual assault. 25 There's a need for a universal Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 161 1 definition of sexual assault, and to 2 also be sure that that definition is 3 common from jurisdiction to 4 jurisdiction. 5 Correctional medical staff 6 need more training in sexual assaults 7 of evidence collection and in 8 performing forensic exams. Funding for 9 multiple sexual assault nurse examiner 10 positions would certainly be of 11 assistance to our state and, I would 12 think, to other states. 13 Medical health -- mental 14 healthcare staff requires specialized 15 training, as you could imagine, to stay 16 abreast of new developments in both the 17 evaluation and the treatment of victims 18 of sexual assault. But certainly, that 19 area could benefit for the additional 20 training support. 21 Funding is also needed to 22 develop a national peer reviewed and 23 evidence based journal for correctional 24 medicine that is dedicated to research 25 regarding prevention and management of Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 162 1 sexual assault. As you have heard 2 today, we -- we highly suspect that 3 much more of this occurs within the 4 system than is reported. And the more 5 we understand and can make this area a 6 top priority the better our prisons 7 will be. 8 Funding is needed to 9 redevelop, reproduce, and distribute 10 educational and informational 11 brochures. Funding is also needed to 12 support offender/peer education 13 conferences and educational activities. 14 I appreciate the opportunity 15 to provide this testimony to you today. 16 Thank you. 17 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 18 Thank you, Dr. Raimer. You 19 note that there is a need for a clear 20 definition of sexual assault in prison. 21 May I ask, what is the definition by 22 which the State of Texas goes in 23 determining what is a sexual assault? 24 MR. RAIMER: 25 It's actually recorded in Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 163 1 the act I -- I quoted to you. And 2 there are -- I'll read -- well, I think 3 probably better than read this G-57.1, 4 it goes through multiple stages. 5 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 6 May I shorten the need of a 7 lengthy answer by better -- or more -- 8 certainly delineating my question. 9 Does sexual assault include 10 a nonviolent achievement of the 11 assaulter's objective? 12 MR. RAIMER: 13 I would have to go back on 14 some of my training. I am, by 15 training, a pediatrician. And for the 16 first 20 years of my career, I was a 17 specific individual in our area of our 18 state doing examinations on children 19 who were victims of sexual assault. 20 And so I think we all recognize that 21 not always is violence used in 22 perpetrating criminal acts of sexual 23 assault. In fact, among children and 24 in people who are mainly handicapped, 25 it is often a non-traumatic event for Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 164 1 them. So I think when no one is 2 harmed, quote, unquote, however you 3 define harmed, then we are less likely 4 to consider that a -- an event worth 5 reporting. That is not the case. 6 Sexual assault, as your 7 literature certainly defines, is all to 8 do with power, is all to do with 9 authority over another. Those abuses 10 can occur at the hands of parents, they 11 can occur within our prison system, it 12 can occur with people out in society. 13 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 14 Excuse me. So you are 15 saying that the definition that the 16 Commission uses, which is coerced sex, 17 is sexual assault is what the State of 18 Texas uses in deciding whether 19 something is sexual assault or not? 20 MR. RAIMER: 21 Yes, sir. 22 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 23 Good. Good. Thank you. 24 Which -- just one last thing 25 and other -- in an incident or an Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 165 1 allegation of assault, the TDCJ goes to 2 the warden and/or OIG, according to 3 your statement? 4 MR. RAIMER: 5 Yes. 6 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 7 So at least by that 8 language, it might not go to the OIG. 9 It might just go to the warden? 10 MR. RAIMER: 11 That could be, but they -- 12 OIG looks at all incidents that occur 13 within our system. And so if it comes 14 into our medical area, a report is 15 filed, OIG is -- is, in all likelihood, 16 going to review that. Also, 17 Dr. Linthicum's office will review all 18 of those in the form of audit. 19 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 20 I did ask the question of 21 Dr. DeGroot, so. At the facility 22 level, does a complaint go to the 23 healthcare overseer -- from the 24 healthcare overseer to the warden and 25 then on to Dr. Linthicum's office, or Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 166 1 goes directly to her office? 2 Yes, ma'am. 3 MS. LINTHICUM: 4 Can I answer that question? 5 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 6 Yes. 7 MS. LINTHICUM: 8 At the facility, most of our 9 facilities have OIG investigators 10 assigned there. So if a sexual assault 11 occurs, really, sort of simultaneously 12 the OIG becomes involved as well as the 13 warden is notified. 14 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 15 By most the our facilities, 16 I assume you mean state operated 17 facilities. You're not speaking of the 18 panel or municipal -- 19 MS. LINTHICUM: 20 The TDCJ facilities. 21 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 22 Thank you. 23 Other commissioners? Yes, 24 Commissioner Fellner. 25 COMMISSIONER FELLNER: Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 167 1 This is actually a question 2 for both Dr. Linthicum and Dr. DeGroot 3 and actually Dr. Greifinger, too. 4 All of you have extensive 5 experience in different capacities with 6 court supervision in the role of the 7 courts. In Dr. DeGroot's testimony, 8 and, Dr. Linthicum, you made it very 9 clear, that it was the intervention of 10 Federal courts which catalyzes and 11 oversaw a huge professionalization and 12 improvement in the quality of the 13 services you provide. And I don't 14 think -- it's just the question was 15 really fully answered as to whether 16 absent court supervision, then the 17 legislature, in their efforts, steps 18 back on how willing they are to fund. 19 But leaving that aside, I 20 wonder if you still believe that -- or 21 would like to address whether courts 22 remain an important avenue for inmates 23 to -- from whom to seek help when, for 24 whatever reasons, agencies are unable, 25 maybe for funding reasons or unwilling Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 168 1 for reasons of philosophy or whatever, 2 to indicate and protect inmates' 3 rights. 4 We're talking later on today 5 different oversight mechanisms. 6 Dr. DeGroot says that they have 7 external audits as part of the way to 8 maintain quality control. I don't 9 think you have external, independent 10 audits in the same way. But I'm 11 wondering if you would like to say 12 something about the role of courts as 13 the sort of ultimate guarantors for 14 inmates. And I'd be interested in both 15 the Georgia and the Texas perspective 16 on this, and your general perspective. 17 MR. GREIFINGER: 18 I think, in general, court 19 intervention have the most constructive 20 change in correctional healthcare more 21 than anything else. But litigation is 22 a very slow, very expensive, and it has 23 a tail on it, particularly with the 24 litigation -- Prison Litigation Reform 25 Act, so I think that should be our last Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 169 1 resort. Once court supervision ends, 2 in my experience, the legislators are 3 very quick to start to grab up what 4 they consider the extra expense 5 incurred by the litigation. 6 MR. DeGROOT: 7 With PLRA, the complaints 8 definitely slowed down, but we still 9 continue to have complaints filed 10 against us. Even when we were on top 11 of our game, we had complaints filed 12 against us. And the complaints were 13 taken seriously. 14 In fact, there was one 15 complaint in 2002 filed at Phillips 16 State Prison, a prison located a little 17 north of Atlanta, saying mental 18 healthcare was inadequate and -- and a 19 few other complaints. And that 20 definitely stimulated the system to -- 21 to look at it very closely and look at 22 the system very closely. Within a 23 year-and-a-half, the complaint was 24 dropped. But whenever there are 25 complaints made, it motivates the Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 170 1 system to -- to stand up and -- and 2 take action, to look at itself and do 3 what needs to be done. 4 COMMISSIONER FELLNER: 5 But in the case the 6 complaint was dropped was, in part, 7 because there has been major changes 8 made at Phillips, if I remember 9 correctly. 10 MR. DeGROOT: 11 Yeah. In fact, that's 12 correct. 13 COMMISSIONER FELLNER: 14 Yeah. 15 MR. DeGROOT: 16 In fact, when the complaint 17 was filed -- and this, I think, is why 18 we have an audit process in place. We 19 have identified the complaints -- or 20 the deficiencies before the complaint 21 was filed through the audit process. 22 So we were well aware. And the 23 commissioner had been informed before 24 we knew a complaint was coming. And 25 we're in the process of putting Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 171 1 together a corrective action plan to 2 correct those complaints. And once the 3 complaint was filed, it just 4 accelerated the implementation of that 5 corrective action plan. 6 I think the courts still 7 exert a powerful influence over -- over 8 the implementation of -- of these 9 policies and procedures. 10 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 11 Thank you. 12 COMMISSIONER FELLNER: 13 No. Dr. Linthicum was going 14 to say something. 15 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 16 Sorry. 17 MS. LINTHICUM: 18 I think after 30 years of 19 litigation -- and I'm going into my 20 22nd year. I was there most of my 21 career under court orders and 22 litigation. -- I would hope that we 23 learned our lesson. I think that, you 24 know, offenders continue to file 25 lawsuits with the PLRA -- it's more Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 172 1 difficult for them, but they still are 2 able to file lawsuits. And I think 3 that's -- that's always good. We 4 always need checks and balances. 5 Much of the internal and 6 external monitoring -- we do have an 7 external monitoring through the 8 American Correctional Association 9 through our accreditation process, that 10 come in and audit the entire facility. 11 Much of that, as I stated before, is 12 still in place, and we continue to 13 strive to make sure we're running a 14 constitutional system. 15 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 16 Thank you, Dr. Linthicum. 17 Yes, Commissioner 18 Struckman-Johnson. 19 COMMISSIONER STRUCKMAN-JOHNSON: 20 This question is to Doctors 21 Linthicum and Raimer. 22 Is there any feedback from 23 the inmates who go through -- receive 24 the sexual assault counseling and 25 treatment that suggest that it's Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 173 1 working? That -- everything, it sounds 2 very good and it sounds like possibly a 3 model for best practices, but is there 4 an evaluation in place? What are the 5 inmates saying after they go through 6 it? Is this something that works? 7 MR. RAIMER: 8 Thank you for that question. 9 We actually did pre- and post-testing 10 on offenders. And what we found is 11 tremendous satisfaction with the 12 program. The information was looked at 13 as very, very valuable. Offenders 14 actually wrote to families about their 15 experience, shared information. 16 One remarkable thing that we 17 noted in our unit culture, was that 18 these individuals became similar to 19 community health workers commotores 20 (phonetic) within the units. People 21 came to them with other medical 22 questions. We have used this model and 23 beginning to roll out a peer education 24 program for diabetes treatment and 25 management. We manage almost 8,000 Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 174 1 diabetics in the prison system in 2 Texas. Also for cardiovascular 3 disease, we have over 21,000 4 hypertensives on medications. And 5 we've just completed a bilingual 6 education program that we will be 7 piloting this year for education in 8 that area. 9 In short, I think it's a 10 very, very successful educational 11 program. It's been extremely well 12 accepted by offenders within their -- 13 their culture and the units themselves. 14 COMMISSIONER STRUCKMAN-JOHNSON: 15 I guess the big question is 16 the program mitigating long-term 17 effects of sexual abuse, and you don't 18 know that? 19 MS. LINTHICUM: 20 We really don't have an 21 answer for that. We do have also, in 22 terms of the perpetrators, part of our 23 policy is to do a review of their 24 medical records as well. We have a 25 program called, The Program for the Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 175 1 Aggressive Mentally Ill Offender that's 2 out in Amarillo, Texas, at our unit out 3 there. And so that is another referral 4 group that we use for the perpetrators 5 if we find comorbidities of mental 6 illness. 7 We are also participating 8 with the Bureau of Justice statistics. 9 We're going to be starting a research 10 study looking at clinical indicators of 11 sexual violence in correctional 12 facilities. Texas is one of six state 13 prisons, and then there's six large 14 county jails that will be participating 15 in this study. And that's planning to 16 get started this month. 17 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 18 Thank you, Doctor. We, I 19 believe, are two minutes away from -- 20 it will be a short lunch break. Are 21 there any other questions? 22 Yes, Commissioner Smith. 23 COMMISSIONER SMITH: 24 I just -- Dr. Raimer, one of 25 the things that I just wanted to point Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 176 1 out or ask is that, in your testimony 2 you indicated that healthcare staff are 3 obligated to report sexual assault as a 4 crime. But then later on in the same 5 paragraph, you talked about health 6 providers being obligated to put their 7 offenders -- the offenders/patient's -- 8 the offender/patient's health and 9 safety first in following the ethical 10 guidelines for your respective 11 professional licensing board. 12 So I guess, just in 13 presenting a scenario, if I come to you 14 as an offender and I want treatment, 15 and I'd been sexually assaulted. But 16 in terms of my own sense of my own 17 personal safety, I want to get 18 treatment, but I don't want you to 19 report it. Based on your testimony, 20 what would you do as a medical 21 provider? 22 MR. RAIMER: 23 Based on my testimony, Ms. 24 Smith, what I would do is report it. 25 And at the same time try to provide Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 177 1 that individual with a safe place 2 immediately. 3 And in our system, we have a 4 very good communication system, through 5 Dr. Linthicum's office, to do just 6 that. I think it would be egregious 7 for a physician to knowingly know that 8 a violent crime had been committed 9 and -- and not provide a safe 10 environment for other offenders and -- 11 and by treating that individual. Now, 12 those are my personal ethics, 13 Ms. Smith. And I think, most of our 14 physicians practice that in our system. 15 COMMISSIONER SMITH: 16 Even if the offender told 17 that you they did not want to report 18 it? 19 MR. RAIMER: 20 I treat that very much like 21 I treat an adolescent who tells me they 22 are going to commit suicide. Because 23 for that individual to stay in that 24 abusive situation, I may subject that 25 person to further violence. And we all Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 178 1 know that if that person is evaluated 2 medical, that information will go back 3 the other way very quickly. And so I 4 think I have to do all I could to 5 provide that person a safe place. In 6 our system, at least, I could do that 7 with confidence. 8 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 9 Well, that question and that 10 answer provided an excellent ending for 11 this fine panel because at 12:30, we're 12 convening a panel entitled, which is, 13 Confidentiality and Reporting. So stay 14 tuned. 15 Thank you all. Thank you 16 very much. And if you have time, 17 please stay. So we'll adjourn until 18 12:30. 19 (Off the record.) 20 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 21 Ladies and gentlemen, we're 22 11 minutes behind schedule. I see four 23 panelist -- or five. Good. I will now 24 ask general counsel to swear all of you 25 in together. Will you all please rise Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 179 1 and raise your right hands? 2 (Five witnesses sworn.) 3 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 4 This panel is entitled, 5 Confidentiality and Reporting: Medical 6 Ethics, Victim Safety, and Facility 7 Security. 8 Victims of sexual assault 9 need a safe and confidential way to 10 seek medical and mental health 11 services. Are there times when 12 reporting obligation and institutional 13 security considerations can -- or 14 should -- come before individual 15 victim's needs? Panelists will discuss 16 the tensions between preserving 17 patient/provider confidentiality and 18 trust, and ensuring safe and secure 19 functioning of correctional facility; 20 and option to address these tensions. 21 We have five panelists. 22 Mike Puisis, D.O., Consultant, former 23 Medical Director at the New Mexico 24 Department of Corrections, Cook 25 County -- and the Cook County Jail; Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 180 1 editor of Clinical Practice in 2 Correctional Medicine." 3 Art Beeler, the warden of 4 Federal Correctional Complex (Butner, 5 North Carolina). 6 Wendy Still, Associate 7 Director of Female Offender Program and 8 Services, California Department of 9 Corrections and Rehabilitation, 10 Sacramento. 11 Lynn Sander, M.D., NCCHC 12 Representative and Medical Director of 13 Denver Sheriff's Department Medical 14 Program, Immediate Past-President, 15 Society of Correctional Physicians, 16 Denver. 17 And Carrie Hill, Attorney, 18 Corrections Law and Criminal Justice 19 Consultant; Editor of Corrections 20 Manager's Report (Maple Grove, 21 Minnesota). 22 Thank you all. The format 23 we use is each expert witness presents 24 his testimony, which can either be the 25 whole statement you presented or if -- Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 181 1 it's all up to you -- it may be a 2 shorten version thereof. And we will 3 go to, hopefully, an interactive 4 process, and questions will be posed to 5 you and -- by various members of the 6 Commission. 7 So Mr. Puisis, would you -- 8 am I pronouncing it correctly? 9 MR. PUISIS: 10 Close. 11 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 12 Okay. Well, actually, 13 that's -- I'll settle for that. 14 MR. PUISIS: 15 Thank you, Commissioner. I 16 appreciate the opportunity to speak to 17 the Commission and to help you develop 18 your recommendations to Congress. I 19 come from 23 years of experience in 20 correctional medicine. I've both taken 21 care of people, including patients who 22 have been raped, had managed 23 correctional facilities, and had 24 monitored facilities in a variety of 25 settings. Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 182 1 We've created, in the United 2 States, a large jail and prison system 3 with over 2.2 million people, the 4 largest per capita in the world. The 5 system is largely subterranean. No 6 reporters and cameras are allowed into 7 facilities to record what's going on as 8 would occur in a community setting. 9 The system is managed by 10 thousands of wardens, each of whom has 11 a unique style of management. And 12 security is the dominant function. 13 It's the purpose of a prison is to 14 securely hold people. There's no 15 mandatory oversight system over 16 security functions, except those that 17 occur under the auspices of the United 18 States Department of Justice or the 19 U.S. Federal Courts. And the U.S. 20 Federal Court system of oversight has 21 been significantly curtailed under 22 PLRA. 23 Within the system, 24 physicians and other health 25 professionals have to see patients, and Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 183 1 we are used to privacy and 2 confidentiality. But this conflicts 3 with the control mentality of security. 4 And security typically wins that -- 5 that battle, because the Supreme Court 6 even has affirmed that a warden has the 7 responsibility to manage, in a secure 8 fashion, the facility. And that 9 includes obtaining reports of medical 10 records if the warden sees fit to 11 manage the facility. 12 Accrediting agencies for 13 medical care in prison, such as the 14 National Commission Correctional 15 Healthcare ACA, American Public Health 16 Association, have standards on privacy. 17 But, for example, the Commission 18 standard of privacy is a -- is a 19 standard that's important and not 20 essential. And in general, all 21 accrediting and correctional facilities 22 is voluntary and not mandatory. As a 23 result, these standards do not impact 24 practice as much as one would expect. 25 In relation to rape, there's Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 184 1 a large gap between the reports of 2 inmates, advocates, and the statistical 3 data that we have that demonstrate what 4 the prevalence of rape is. There's 5 also a gap between the NSO's reports 6 and what medical providers say they 7 report to their superiors. So even at 8 the level of the physicians and other 9 health professionals working in 10 correctional settings, those 11 individuals are not seeing rape at the 12 rates that even I believe are 13 occurring. 14 And the question is, is why 15 is this happening? Privacy and 16 confidentiality issues are rarely, I 17 believe, the reason why this gap exist. 18 Inmates are really in a position to 19 have to make choices. And the choice 20 they have to make is, if they report 21 rape, is their condition going to 22 improve. And I think lacking that 23 assurance, the reporting of rape will 24 not improve, regardless of 25 confidentiality matters. Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 185 1 And what I would like to do 2 is just close with some recommendations 3 that I would suggest that the 4 Commission consider as it reports to 5 Congress. 6 Number one, I would strongly 7 recommend a reduction in the prison 8 population, particularly for those 9 portions of the prison population that 10 are vulnerable or who's placement -- a 11 prison is not the placement or -- or 12 should not be the placement of choice, 13 specifically the mentally ill. Many of 14 the mentally ill belong in mental 15 health institutions, not in prison. 16 And we -- we heard earlier a 17 psychologist from the Georgia 18 Department of Corrections describe the 19 prevalence of rape in the mentally ill. 20 You can reduce rape by removing that 21 population into a setting that's more 22 appropriate for them. Other 23 populations could include the homeless 24 populations in jail settings, and 25 people who are so ill they don't really Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 186 1 even know that they're in prison any 2 longer. 3 Number two recommendation. 4 There should be some form of external 5 monitoring that is mandatory. 6 Currently, there is no -- no oversight. 7 And any agency that I can think of that 8 has any importance is monitored in some 9 aspect. There's the FDA that -- Jayco 10 for hospitals, there's a nuclear 11 regulatory agency. But prisoners have 12 no -- not advocates, but no one looking 13 over the shop. And so the decisions 14 that are made by these individual 15 wardens are -- can be unique, but are 16 the final say. And Federal laws have 17 diminished to the extent that very few 18 cases now are being filed in federal 19 court as class actions. 20 Regarding rape, 21 specifically, all inmates who are 22 suspected of rape should be presented 23 for medical evaluation when it's known. 24 The evaluation should be private to the 25 extent it can be. And I think unless Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 187 1 you've work in a correctional setting, 2 you may not know what can occur in many 3 of these facilities. 4 I have recently monitored a 5 facility in a state where the officer 6 who is guarding the inmate is sitting 7 next to the examination table as the 8 inmate is being examined. You can 9 believe that or not, but that's -- 10 that's what occurs. 11 Medical professionals should 12 be required to report rape. Rape, to 13 me, is the equivalent of the laws in 14 most states that require the reporting 15 of child abuse. And it should be a 16 reportable issue. In my opinion, 17 medical ethics and patient safety are 18 the reasons that reporting rape should 19 be a professional obligation. 20 Hopefully, the reporting of rape will 21 result in the safety of the patient. 22 Medical treatment should be 23 consistent with community standards 24 regarding the management. Custody 25 policy and procedure should be Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 188 1 standardized so that the reporting and 2 the confidentiality are established in 3 policy and procedure, rather than 4 invented on the spot. Policy and 5 procedure should require automatic 6 transfer to a safe location that would, 7 hopefully, encourage people to report. 8 There should be confidentiality so that 9 only those who need to know that 10 someone has been raped know, and it 11 should not be something that is 12 discussed. And that should be in 13 policy. 14 Correctional staff are used 15 to a military style mentality in 16 control and policy and procedure in 17 post-orders. And I think to the extent 18 that those post-orders are standardized 19 and absolutely clear, I think they will 20 adhere to them. 21 The inmate patient should be 22 informed about how the rape would be 23 reported and to whom it will be 24 reported, in addition to being offered 25 counseling services. Officers who Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 189 1 interview inmates who have been raped 2 should receive training as to how to 3 conduct such interviews and how to 4 maintain confidentiality. 5 I hope these suggestions are 6 useful, and good luck on your work. 7 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 8 Thank you. Many of the 9 recommendations that you put before us, 10 as you might have -- might know, have 11 been placed before us. And we are 12 considering many of them very seriously 13 as we formulate standards and -- and 14 write our report. 15 But again, speaking for 16 myself, the very first thing you said 17 after your opening remark, are really 18 the dilemma of the prisoner who has 19 been the victim of sexual violence. By 20 violence, the way we define it, coerced 21 sex is violent sex. You put it so 22 well. And then the answer you pose to 23 your own question was, basically, no. 24 And that's very disturbing. 25 The question is, should I Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 190 1 report this rape? And one way or 2 another I then ask myself the question, 3 will I be better off if I report it? 4 And your answer to that question is, 5 most of the time, no. 6 Is that what I heard? 7 MR. PUISIS: 8 Not entirely. In principle, 9 I believe that all rape should be 10 reported. There's no question about 11 that. However, we work in abnormal 12 settings where some jurisdictions do 13 not function well. And if you reported 14 a rape, it would not be taken 15 seriously. 16 So under all considerations, 17 from my point of view as a physician, a 18 physician should take responsibility to 19 make sure that the patient is safely 20 cared for in the best manner that you 21 can do under the circumstances. In 22 some settings that may not include 23 reporting. If it is known that if you 24 report a rape, the patient will be 25 humiliated. Why would you do that? Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 191 1 However, under ideal settings, all rape 2 should be reported. And because 3 it's -- and typically it's the only way 4 that a -- an inmate can be transferred 5 to safe housing, is working through 6 custody. 7 So I think in answer to your 8 question, yes, all rape should be 9 reported. There will be circumstances 10 where I can understand why a clinician 11 would not do so. 12 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 13 If transportation or removal 14 to the safe housing situation is a 15 requirement of -- of your feeling that 16 it is best place to report the rape, 17 isn't there a question many times as to 18 whether or not reporting that rape will 19 result in the victim being put into 20 safe housing? 21 MR. PUISIS: 22 Well, that's a dilemma of 23 incarceration, isn't it? I mean, we 24 all understand that -- if you think of 25 a woman who is in a marriage where she Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 192 1 is abused and raped, or a child who's 2 beaten by a parent, you would want to 3 remove them from that situation. And 4 more often in so many settings you 5 could do that than you can in 6 correctional settings. And 7 unfortunately, that is our dilemma. 8 And that's why I believe your 9 Commission is -- has a -- a momentous 10 task. Because I believe it's the 11 conditions of incarceration, and that's 12 why I recommend external monitoring, to 13 try to improve those conditions. 14 Remember, the wardens and 15 the secretaries of corrections also 16 have what they have. They have the 17 funding that they have to run the -- 18 this vast system of incarceration, and 19 often it's not enough. It just isn't. 20 And what are they to do? So I think 21 external monitoring points out those 22 deficiencies, and at least brings them 23 to the legislators and others so that 24 remedies can be taken. But it is a 25 dilemma. Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 193 1 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 2 Thank you. 3 Questions from other 4 commissioners? 5 Commissioner Smith. 6 COMMISSIONER SMITH: 7 Okay. Since this seems to 8 kind of be the area that I seem to be 9 spending a bit of time today -- 10 hypothetical. You've recommended -- 11 one of the things that you've said is 12 that, hopefully, the reporting of the 13 rape will result safety for the inmate. 14 And as I hear it, one of the things 15 that you're recommending, which I think 16 is an excellent recommendation, is some 17 degree of informed consent for the 18 offender, when you're counseling the 19 offender as a clinician. So if you 20 were doing an informed consent 21 interaction with the offender, what 22 would it sound like, given the 23 discussion that you and Commissioner 24 Kaneb had? 25 MR. PUISIS: Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 194 1 Well, I would tell the 2 person that it's my responsibility to 3 report this, and that I would be 4 reporting it. The purpose of that is 5 to try to get you into a housing 6 situation that is safe for you. I 7 would ask them their opinion. I would 8 ask them what are the issues 9 surrounding housing changes that -- 10 that affect their safety. Because 11 inmates know, often better than we do, 12 where different gangs and affiliations 13 within a prison lie, and what risk 14 they're entering into. 15 I would allow a degree of 16 flexibility in talking with them. But 17 I think that the -- THE inmate needs to 18 be treated as a person, and they need 19 to be treated with respect as if they 20 were a civilian, in that situation. 21 And that's hard to do in custody. 22 COMMISSIONER SMITH: 23 And so under that set of 24 circumstances, if the inmate said to 25 you under an informed consent model Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 195 1 that, based on what you've told me, and 2 based on what I know about the 3 likelihood about being transferred or 4 that reporting will result in my 5 safety, I don't think that I want to 6 report this. What would be your 7 response? 8 MR. PUISIS: 9 Well, my response is that -- 10 to the patient you're saying, or to 11 you? 12 COMMISSIONER SMITH: 13 To the patient. 14 MR. PUISIS: 15 I would still maintain to 16 the patient that the only way to break 17 the cycle within the prison is to make 18 sure that we bring this forward. And I 19 think in some states there may be a 20 legal responsibility to do so. If 21 there is, in those states, I would 22 acknowledge that. And -- but I would 23 discuss it. I would, frankly, discuss 24 it. And I know where you're coming 25 from. Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 196 1 I guess if I worked -- and I 2 won't name the prison. But if I worked 3 in certain prisons, I might not do 4 that. But places where I've worked, I 5 have always been able to have a 6 relationship with someone in the 7 organization of custody that would 8 allow for a safe transfer of the 9 inmate. 10 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 11 Thank you. 12 Other -- Commissioner Nolan. 13 COMMISSIONER NOLAN: 14 We had a hearing in South 15 Bend at Notre Dame, and there was an 16 inmate there who had been in two 17 different institutions. 18 At one institution, he was 19 being attacked and he went to the 20 lieutenant and said, I'd like to 21 transfer. The lieutenant understood 22 what was going on and said, is there a 23 place you'd like to go? And he told 24 him -- he moved him. 25 In the other institution, he Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 197 1 went and the lieutenant said, why are 2 you being beaten or raped? And Steve 3 said, no. And the reason he lied was 4 because there was a death sentence, if 5 you were a rat. And so the lieutenant 6 said, well, if you're not being beaten 7 or raped, you know, if you're not going 8 to report it, there's nothing I can do. 9 And Steve says, well, I just want to 10 transfer housing. The lieutenant, 11 knowing what was going on, said, well, 12 you don't get to choose where you 13 house. Get back in your cell. So he 14 condemned him to be beaten and raped. 15 Given that circumstance -- 16 and in that the medical personnel 17 generally doesn't control the housing. 18 How -- how can we help in a situation 19 like that so that the lieutenants 20 give -- understands the situation, and 21 if Steve doesn't want to report it, 22 still put him in a safer place? 23 MR. PUISIS: 24 If there were national 25 standards that were externally Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 198 1 enforced, you could have a standard 2 that require that medical personnel 3 could -- could order a transfer of an 4 inmate to a certain housing unit, based 5 on a recommendation. 6 Typically, if you do that 7 now, you would be asked for a 8 rationale, and you would have to give 9 specifics. But if you were allowed to 10 do that -- now that -- you would have a 11 lot of people saying that that will 12 violate security rules. And I could 13 see where they would -- where they 14 would be coming from. But that could 15 be one way you could overcome that. 16 COMMISSIONER NOLAN: 17 Thank you. 18 MR. PUISIS: 19 You would have to give a 20 carte blanche ability. 21 COMMISSIONER FELLNER: 22 Could I just -- for 23 followup? 24 You had said in your -- that 25 one of the main reasons to require Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 199 1 medical personnel was to ensure safe 2 housing, so I was going to ask that 3 very question. Well, if medical 4 personnel themselves can ensure safe 5 housing, then the remaining reasons to 6 report wouldn't be safe housing, but 7 would be to enable the facility to 8 identify perpetrators, to take action 9 against the perpetrator, or to 10 otherwise enforce security. 11 If medical personnel were 12 given the authority to order housing -- 13 so that's no longer the issue, the safe 14 housing -- how would you, as a medical 15 clinician, weigh the inmate's desire to 16 have a control of what's reported or 17 not in his or her assessment of what's 18 safe versus the facility's desire to be 19 able to prosecute, investigate, or take 20 other steps to ensure the safety and 21 security of the facility, but no longer 22 the specific individual's safety and 23 security? Did I phrase that -- 24 MR. PUISIS: 25 No, I think I understand. Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 200 1 There's an assumption that safe housing 2 can be provided, which is, I think, a 3 question of assumption. 4 COMMISSIONER FELLNER: 5 Yes. 6 MR. PUISIS: 7 But I think in answer to 8 your question, at that point, it 9 wouldn't matter because, if you could 10 provide safe housing, I think that 11 inmates would not be reluctant to 12 report. And I think that the reason 13 they don't report is -- is twofold. 14 One, a lack of safe housing. But, two, 15 the fear and humiliation of 16 acknowledgment. It's a personal 17 acknowledgment that they have been 18 raped. Something they do not want to 19 do. But in addition, there's a safe 20 housing issue. 21 But if you can create safe 22 housing and you allow it, I think 23 that -- why would anyone not think that 24 that's a good thing to do? I think the 25 inmates would think it's a good thing Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 201 1 to do. I'm just speaking from 2 experience, but. I don't see why they 3 wouldn't think it's a good thing to do. 4 I have never in my 22 years offered 5 something that was good for an inmate 6 that they didn't accept. I just don't 7 see it. There are ordinary people like 8 you and I, and if you offer a good deal 9 to them, they'll take it. If you offer 10 them safety and protection, they'll 11 take it. I think the fact that we 12 can't offer it is why we have this 13 discussion about reporting and -- and 14 hiding and -- it's a subterranean 15 world. 16 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 17 Thank you. 18 Are there any other 19 questions? 20 Well, thank you. 21 We'll now move on to Art 22 Beeler, please. 23 MR. BEELER: 24 Thank you, sir. 25 Mr. Chairman and other Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 202 1 members of the Commission, let me 2 preface my remarks by saying that my -- 3 I was asked to talk about absolute 4 confidentiality. That was the limit of 5 what I was asked to speak of today. 6 It's a very narrow topic, and I'm going 7 to try to restrain my testimony to that 8 very, very narrow topic. Because it is 9 a narrow topic against a whole -- of 10 issues that you guys are dealing with 11 in a most effective way. 12 By way of background, I've 13 been a warden for six federal 14 institutions, to include transportation 15 center, a federal jail, two medical 16 centers, and the largest federal prison 17 in the country. I've been a warden for 18 over 20 years. And I would like to say 19 that I haven't dealt with this subject, 20 but I have dealt with this subject. 21 Your task is critically 22 important to every prison administrator 23 in this country, and that's is how to 24 manage and protect offenders who have 25 been sexually abused or allegedly Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 203 1 sexually abused. And I want to regress 2 for a second and talk about what is 3 allegedly sexual abuse. 4 In the prison environment, 5 it doesn't matter if it's sexually 6 abusive or allegedly sexually abusive. 7 Because if the word gets out, it's just 8 as if it happened in the world of the 9 prison environment. 10 I doubt that you'll find one 11 prison administrator who will even say 12 one case of abuse by other inmates with 13 staff is acceptable. And we must deal 14 with, even the one case, in the most 15 expeditious manner we can, up and 16 including prosecution whenever 17 possible. 18 This discussion of today's 19 discussion comes from balancing the 20 needs of confidentiality in a prison 21 environment whether or not treatment 22 staff should be allowed or required to 23 maintain absolute confidentiality when 24 discussing the sexual abuse of an 25 offender. And I'm talking about Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 204 1 confidentiality you get here, and not a 2 legal concept of privilege. This 3 absolute confidentiality would allow 4 for treatment to be provided to the 5 offender who's been abused by qualified 6 staff or, in some cases, by contractors 7 or volunteers, without prison staff 8 becoming knowledgeable of the abuse or 9 involved in the process. 10 The ethical dilemma of whom 11 to share information with in a prison 12 environment is probably as old as 13 prisons are themselves. On the one 14 side, it is the desired that the 15 information not be shared with those 16 who do not have the sensitivity to 17 handle the information in a 18 professional manner. On the other 19 side, is the need to keep staff and 20 inmate safe and the institution secure. 21 Both of those are dynamic tensions, as 22 you have mentioned already. 23 And discussions with 24 professional and advocates the 25 suggestion was that nothing would be Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 205 1 told to prison staff. How about 2 information relating to a crime? As 3 law enforcement officials, we have a 4 duty, obligation to report a crime. In 5 fact, when I reviewed the monograph -- 6 the recent review of the monograph, 7 Breaking the Code of Silence, the 8 correctional officers handbook for 9 identifying and address sexual 10 misconduct. It says that, misconduct 11 with offenders affects correctional 12 staff by jeopardizing staff safety, 13 threatening agency and facility safety, 14 creating the risk of legal action, 15 creating health risk, harming family 16 relationships, creating negative public 17 views, diminishing trust and morale, 18 and weakening the respect for in 19 authority of correctional staff among 20 offenders. 21 While this monograph was 22 written primarily looking at sexual 23 abuse of staff against inmates, I'm 24 here to tell you that it doesn't 25 matter, in my view, if staff or inmates Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 206 1 are perpetrating the sexual abuse. I 2 would argue that many of the same 3 factors facing correctional 4 administrators are both with staff and 5 inmates. If we do not attempt to 6 enforce the law and regulations, 7 because we know -- because we're not 8 told of the behavior. And quite 9 frankly, and this isn't my written 10 testimony, but if we do know and don't 11 do something, that's a crime. But if 12 we don't know about something of a 13 behavior, then how do you attempt to 14 deter the behavior? 15 In our system, when someone 16 comes forward with a statement that 17 they've been sexually abused, three 18 entities become immediately involved. 19 First, medical staff to determine if 20 there's any physical harm to the 21 offender. Also, if a crime has 22 occurred, it is either this medical 23 staff or community medical staff that 24 must act to preserve the evidence, 25 along with trained investigators. Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 207 1 Second, mental healthcare, to ensure 2 that someone is discussing the trauma 3 of the abuse with the offender as well 4 as the resources available to the 5 offender. And finally, the 6 investigative arm of the agency to 7 determine if there's a crime or rule 8 violation. And if action needs to be 9 taken -- and I say that on purpose with 10 a comma -- and if action is to be 11 taken, because sometimes those are 12 outside the hands of correctional 13 administrators, who like to action. 14 It is hoped this is 15 accomplished with professional 16 sensitivity. But each of the component 17 and parts is important to maintain the 18 safety and security of the offender and 19 the safety and security of the 20 institution. 21 California -- or the 22 University of California just published 23 a monograph called, Violence in 24 Correctional -- Correctional Facilities 25 and Empirical Examination of Sexual Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 208 1 Assault. 2 In this monograph, there's a 3 significant dialog going on regarding 4 housing assignment compatibility. Any 5 unit manager or correctional officer, 6 for that matter of fact, or 7 correctional administrator, knows that 8 this compatibility is essential in 9 maintaining safety inside your 10 institution. But again, if there's 11 absolute confidentiality regarding the 12 incident of sexual abuse, whether it's 13 real or perceived, administrators will 14 not know this information. Without it, 15 a correctional officer or unit staff 16 member may house the offender with the 17 perpetrator's best buddy. Or worse 18 yet, with the perpetrator themselves. 19 This is especially relevant when you 20 look at the issue against broad 21 spectrum of inmates cliques, ethnic 22 grouping and the like. And that's a 23 nice way of saying gangs. If this 24 information was not available to 25 correctional personnel, your decision Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 209 1 in housing an offender may be, in fact, 2 a death sentence. 3 Finally, much has been said 4 about the victim having to suffer when 5 information becomes noted about him or 6 her, and induced by either staff or 7 inmates. 8 The realities of prison life 9 are that these issues are very 10 difficult. And sometimes the victim 11 does end up in administrative 12 segregation until alternative 13 arrangements are made. I want to 14 underscore the word, alternative 15 arrangements are made. 16 However, as I once told a 17 mother on the phone, I would rather 18 your son come home alive in one piece, 19 even if that means I keep him locked 20 down, than come home in a coffin, 21 because I did not take steps to ensure 22 his safety. 23 Absolute confidentiality is 24 a nice idea. And in an ideal world, I 25 would concur wholeheartedly. However, Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 210 1 prison life and the practicality of the 2 correctional administrator maintaining 3 safe and secure confinement does not 4 allow for this in its totality. 5 I'll be happy to try to 6 answer any questions any of you may 7 have. 8 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 9 Commissioners? 10 Commissioner Puryear. 11 COMMISSIONER PURYEAR: 12 I just have a quick 13 question. Take it just a step beyond 14 the confidentiality context but along 15 with the lines when we were talking 16 about, if a inmate -- I'm talking about 17 from Notre Dame. If an inmate comes up 18 and says, I want to transfer, and won't 19 give reason. Does the BOP have a 20 policy about what to do there, or is it 21 left to the discretion of the warden? 22 And what would be your response in 23 either event? 24 MR. BEELER: 25 Well, generally, we're going Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 211 1 to try to -- to -- first of all, we're 2 not going to put the inmate on the hot 3 seat, meaning we're not going to make a 4 big deal out of it right then and 5 there. Are we going to try to find out 6 what's going on? The answer is yes. 7 If it's an unverified protection case, 8 meaning we've done -- the inmate says, 9 I want to a transfer. And if it's an 10 unverified protection case, meaning 11 that we cannot verify a reason for 12 protection, then we're going to treat 13 that as an unverified protection case, 14 and after a period of time, try to work 15 the person back into the general 16 population. 17 If it's a verified 18 protection case, then we're going to 19 move the offender. 20 COMMISSIONER PURYEAR: 21 I guess this gets a little 22 bit to the point that the first witness 23 was raising about medical staff being 24 involved in these decisions. Is there 25 any risk to that? And then secondly, Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 212 1 could you -- could the whole problem be 2 solved if inmates were allowed to make 3 a request for a transfer knowing that 4 request will be honored but not having 5 any idea where they might have be 6 transferred to? In other words, it 7 might get them out of the immediate 8 zone of danger where there's a stigma 9 against reporting what's happening, and 10 a great risk potentially. 11 MR. BEELER: 12 I could see that used very 13 quickly as a manipulative device by 14 inmates wanting to transfer to another 15 location, so I would give that as a 16 caution. And -- but I would also say 17 that I think medical staff should be 18 involved, and we do involve medical 19 staff in issues regarding these 20 situations, to include both mental 21 health and medical staff because they 22 are often two different entities 23 looking at two different aspects of the 24 problem. So I -- I encourage that -- 25 that issue. Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 213 1 The one thing that the 2 doctor said that I wanted just to make 3 a comment upon, is sometimes medical 4 staff don't know what's going on inside 5 the cell blocks either. And you've got 6 to be careful there. That dynamic 7 development of tension going on has to 8 be -- that's why I -- I'm very reticent 9 to say that you can have the absolute 10 confidentiality. 11 I would love to tell you 12 that I would sit here and say that that 13 could be a possibility. But my job as 14 a prison administrator is to keep 15 people alive in my institution. My job 16 as a prison administrator is to keep 17 people safe inside my institution. My 18 job as a prison administrator is to 19 stop assaults inside my institution. I 20 take that very seriously. Whatever I 21 can do to make that happen, I'm going 22 to try to make it happen. But at the 23 same time, I've got to have the 24 information to make that happen. 25 CHAIRMAN KANEB: Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 214 1 Thank you. 2 Other questions? 3 COMMISSIONER AIKEN: 4 Just one question, sir. 5 And please correct me if I'm 6 wrong. In relationship to protective 7 custody, in that universe, you've got 8 all types of population going into a 9 protective custody setting. You've got 10 the ex-gang member that turned against 11 his gang and gave some valuable 12 information; however, that individual 13 still has traits of random as well as 14 systemic violence against other 15 inmates. The sexual predator that's 16 now tagged the wrong person and half 17 the institution is after him, and he's 18 on protective custody. And then on the 19 other end, you have a very vulnerable 20 population in protective custody. 21 What are some of the 22 protocols, some of the approaches, and 23 some of the criteria that you may use 24 in order to protect the people that are 25 in protective custody from each other? Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 215 1 MR. BEELER: 2 That's a very good question, 3 Commissioner. Many times you have to 4 protect them from each other, as you 5 say. And oftentimes, that means 6 three-men holds on staff having to take 7 them out, especially if the candidates 8 that you just mentioned that -- we 9 haven't talked about at all, but you 10 just mentioned it. The sexual predator 11 who then becomes a victim because of 12 the situation -- because of the 13 situation, whatever that situation 14 might be. 15 And I think the Commission 16 should remember that, as the 17 correctional administrator, I have to 18 provide care and custody to both of 19 these parties, not just the victim. I 20 have to provide care and custody for 21 the predator also in this situation. 22 The child pornographer, the 23 child molester. When the information 24 becomes known inside of an institution. 25 I'm fortunate that we've been able to Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 216 1 work most of those things out at my 2 facility, and we can work most of them 3 into the population. But I run a large 4 medical facility, as you know, 5 Commissioner. And I run a large mental 6 health facility, as you know. I'm not 7 sure that I could do the same things in 8 the penitentiary. In fact, I have run 9 a penitentiary and know that I can't -- 10 not necessarily to do the same things 11 for the penitentiary. 12 So it's -- each case you 13 have to look at an individual. And you 14 have to take those safeguards that you 15 have to take against each case, each 16 individual inmate, to make sure that 17 you did the best you can to keep them 18 safe. 19 COMMISSIONER AIKEN: 20 So basically what you're 21 possibly implying is that each case has 22 to be, quote, unquote, custom case? 23 MR. BEELER: 24 Yes, sir. 25 COMMISSIONER AIKEN: Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 217 1 You've got to look at the 2 medical issue, the security issue, the 3 gang issue, of who he can get along 4 with, the mental health issue. All 5 those issues have to take a weight and 6 a value before a final decision is 7 made; is that correct? 8 MR. BEELER: 9 That is correct, sir. 10 COMMISSIONER AIKEN: 11 Thank you. 12 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 13 Commissioner Smith. 14 COMMISSIONER SMITH: 15 Thank you. 16 Warden Beeler, thank you -- 17 MR. BEELER: 18 It's good to see you again. 19 COMMISSIONER SMITH: 20 You too. Thanks so much for 21 your testimony. And it's good to see 22 that some of the materials that we've 23 been working on is useful. 24 What I hear you saying, 25 and I think you responded to it in Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 218 1 Commissioner Aiken's, is that one of 2 the reasons that you're able to talk 3 with such certainty about this, is your 4 particular context being in a medical 5 and mental health facility. And I 6 think we have lots to learn from how to 7 do things at Butner. But you've also 8 been pretty explicit about, if you were 9 doing this in a penitentiary -- in a 10 penitentiary it wouldn't work. 11 And so going back to this 12 whole thing that you've been asked to 13 testify about, which is absolute 14 confidentiality. What I hear you 15 saying, or at least what I'm taking 16 from your testimony, is that you feel 17 like absolute -- absolute 18 confidentiality is not helpful in terms 19 of safety and security. But the 20 reality is, is that we end up having 21 absolute confidentiality anyway, 22 because inmates make an assessment 23 about that, and they create their own 24 sense -- they create that environment 25 by not report it. Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 219 1 Is that a fair assessment? 2 MR. BEELER: 3 Partially but not totally. 4 COMMISSIONER SMITH: 5 Okay. 6 MR. BEELER: 7 We often find out about 8 sexual assault or alleged sexual 9 assault without the inmates coming 10 forward. 11 COMMISSIONER SMITH: 12 Exactly. From a third party 13 of some kind. 14 MR. BEELER: 15 Through a drop note -- 16 COMMISSIONER SMITH: 17 Right. 18 MR. BEELER: 19 -- through a 1-800 line. 20 Those kinds of avenues. And when we 21 find out those information, it's 22 not -- it's us going forward to deal 23 with that situation. So sometimes the 24 inmates create their own situation 25 around themselves, and I'm not going to Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 220 1 dismiss that. But oftentimes, it -- it 2 ends up coming to us anyway. 3 Prisoners typically want to 4 live in a pretty peaceful existence 5 inside institutions. And many times, 6 if there's something going on that we 7 need to know about, we find out about 8 it, and it's not necessarily from the 9 inmates themselves coming forth and 10 telling us. Many times it's from a 11 third party telling us. And then we 12 have to deal with that situation. And 13 then we have to protect not only the 14 victim, we have to protect the third 15 party who's come forth and told us, if 16 that knowledge is public. Thankfully, 17 most of the time that, and large 18 majority of the time, that information 19 doesn't become public. 20 COMMISSIONER SMITH: 21 And just one last comment. 22 I know that the Bureau has 23 been struggling and really doing some 24 reassessment in the aftermath of 25 incidents at Tallahassee. Because I Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 221 1 think that that was a real situation 2 where there was an impact, not only on 3 inmates, where information wasn't 4 coming up, but it also ultimately 5 resulted in a death of an OIG agent, I 6 believe. Is that correct? 7 MR. BEELER: 8 Yes, ma'am. And one of the 9 most tragic days of the Bureau's 10 history is when the OIG agent was 11 killed by a staff member who was under 12 investigation at Tallahassee. And 13 large parts of that are still in 14 litigation. Many of those people have 15 pled guilty already, but I don't know 16 if everybody has pled guilty. But it's 17 certainly a tragedy. 18 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 19 Any other questions? 20 COMMISSIONER SMITH: 21 John, one last question. 22 I guess -- not wanting to 23 take up a quick -- but what are the 24 lessons that the Bureau has learned or 25 is taking from that? And I think it Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 222 1 relates directly to issues around where 2 information comes from and how it 3 circulates up, because it creates kind 4 of a really explosive environment. 5 MR. BEELER: 6 You know -- and I don't mean 7 to speak for the director -- 8 COMMISSIONER SMITH: 9 Right. I understand that. 10 MR. BEELER: 11 -- right now. But in being 12 a prison administrator and being a 13 warden for 22 years, I found 14 Tallahassee to be one of the blackest 15 mark in our history, because I'm not 16 going to sit here and tell you that I 17 don't think somebody didn't know about 18 it. There are very few secrets in 19 prison. And -- when I talk about 20 totality of secrets. And I am still 21 sitting here today saying that somebody 22 knew what was going on. Can I prove 23 that? The answer is no. My gut is 24 telling me somebody knew the 25 information was going on. What are we Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 223 1 doing about it? Well, we're doing a 2 number of things about it. 3 One of the thing is that we 4 are continually harping on training. 5 Not that that hadn't happened before, 6 but we've got to continue the training. 7 We've got to continue the training. 8 We've got to get people to understand 9 their responsibilities. 10 The other thing is swift 11 action against people, and I mean staff 12 in those situations. We've got to take 13 swift action against staff, and certain 14 action against staff up to prosecution. 15 One thing that has not been 16 asked of me, and I -- I will just 17 simply say this since, it is the 18 prosecution of these cases, whether 19 they're staff or inmates. Now, in the 20 inmate situation it's often not 21 prosecution because in many places it's 22 not a law. It's a regulation. But for 23 staff, sometimes it's very difficult to 24 move forward with the prosecution 25 because the -- there are prosecutional Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 224 1 issues, whether it be -- people say, 2 hey, this is a prison case. You guys 3 handle this. 4 And I will tell you most 5 prison administrators -- and I'm not 6 going to speak for all prison 7 administrators. Most prison 8 administrators want to take these cases 9 forward. We need no stop these 10 behaviors, and that's one of the ways 11 to stop the behavior. 12 We could have a long 13 discussion on this, Brenda. 14 COMMISSIONER SMITH: 15 We surely could. 16 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 17 Thank you. 18 I think we'll now move on to 19 Ms. Still, please. 20 MS. STILL: 21 Thank you. My name Wendy 22 Still, and I serve as the associate 23 director for the California Department 24 of Corrections and Rehabilitation. 25 On behalf of Governor Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 225 1 Schwarzenegger and Secretary Tilton, 2 I'd like to thank the Commission for 3 inviting the speakers at CDCR to 4 testify today. 5 The CDCR is one of the 6 largest state corrections department in 7 the nation with over 173,000 offenders. 8 In 2005, the legislature put 9 rehabilitation back into the core 10 mission of the California Department of 11 Corrections to indicate and reflect its 12 strong commitment for CDCR to become a 13 place where offenders make positive 14 strides towards becoming productive 15 citizens of our state and nation. PREA 16 in the work of this Commission fits 17 clearly within that mission. 18 The State of California also 19 qualified its support of PREA and the 20 principles described therein when it 21 passed the Sexual Abuse and Detention 22 Elimination Act in 2005. I believe we 23 were the first state in the nation to 24 pass a state version of PREA. State 25 legislation requires, among other Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 226 1 things, that the CDCR works in 2 collaboration with the communities 3 partners to end sexual violence in its 4 prisons, and ensures that prisoners who 5 have been victims of abuse have access 6 to basic services. 7 Regarding confidentiality 8 and reporting, the CDCR policies and 9 law requires disclosure of the 10 information by all staff, including 11 healthcare, when the safety and 12 security of an inmate is at risk. And 13 we have formal reporting protocols that 14 must be followed. However, one 15 critical strategy that we've employed, 16 from the beginning of our work on PREA, 17 is to collaborate without fine 18 organization that have expertise in 19 sexual violence for victim services. 20 This collaboration has allowed us to 21 incorporate fresh ideas and to expand 22 the limits of what we are able to 23 accomplish. 24 One such example is the 25 pilot project called, Path to Recovery, Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 227 1 through which we are collaborating with 2 Stop Prison Rape, a national human 3 rights organization based in Los 4 Angeles, and two of California's 5 community rape crisis centers, Path to 6 Recovery, which brings independent rape 7 crisis counselors into CDCR facilities 8 to provided confidential counseling 9 survivors of sexual abuse. The 10 counselors work with inmates who have 11 been sexually assaulted, at any time of 12 their lives, not only those who are 13 victimized while incarcerated. 14 Drawing on the success of 15 this program, I'd like to address today 16 the issue of confidentiality in mental 17 healthcare and correctional facilities, 18 particularly for inmates who have been 19 sexually assaulted. 20 Prior to Path to Recovery, 21 there was no mechanisms for CDCR 22 inmates who have been sexually 23 assaulted to obtain counseling without, 24 in essence, making an official report. 25 We know that sexual assault is one of Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 228 1 the most under-reported crimes in 2 society and in prison. It only serves 3 to reason then that many inmates will 4 not ask for help if it means making a 5 report. 6 Focusing on the well-being 7 of inmates, who have endured sexual 8 abuse, we at CDCR decided to take this 9 full step forward and launch the Path 10 to Recovery at 200 institutions. One 11 men's facility housing nearly 6,000 12 inmates at all security levels, and a 13 women's facility with 2400 inmates at 14 secure levels one through three. 15 During the pilot stage, 16 staff members at each of the pilot 17 institutions expressed hesitation about 18 the project, citing security concerns. 19 Investigators were particularly 20 resistant stating that creating a venue 21 for inmates to discuss an assault that 22 have conceivably occurred within the 23 institution without initiating a 24 formalized report, would undermine 25 their roles and the ability to ensure Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 229 1 institutional safety. 2 While this concern certainly 3 has merit, we believe that this effort, 4 in fact, ultimately would lead to more, 5 not fewer, formal reports of sexual 6 abuse. If survivors of sexual assault 7 know that confidential support services 8 are available, if they see the 9 institution providing for their 10 emotional as well as medical needs, 11 they will be more likely to access the 12 services and to create an environment 13 where offenders feel safe enough to 14 file these formal complaints so that 15 proper action may be taken against the 16 perpetrator. 17 Initially, staff also raised 18 concern about the potential for 19 departmental liability. How can 20 someone such as a community rape crisis 21 counselor know about a crime that has 22 been committed or planned in a state 23 institution and did nothing with that 24 information? Rape crisis counselors 25 operate under ethical and legal Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 230 1 obligations to protect their clients' 2 confidentiality, except in those cases 3 where confidentiality is legally 4 limited, such as where the inmate poses 5 a danger to him or herself or others. 6 In other words, because the Path to 7 Recovery counselors provide services 8 under that auspices of the community 9 rape crisis program by which they're 10 certified, they're bound not to tell 11 CDCR officials about the content of 12 their counseling session. 13 I am pleased to report that 14 far from being a security risk, the 15 access to confidential counseling has, 16 in fact, improved security at the two 17 pilot prisons. The investigation -- 18 investigators in both of the pilot 19 institutions have created, in no 20 uncertain terms, that both the 21 relationship with the services and the 22 services offered by the community 23 organizations are useful tools in 24 carrying out the CDC's mission of 25 maintaining safe, orderly facilities Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 231 1 and keeping, basically, the offender 2 safe. The project has progressed to 3 where the CDCR mental staff members 4 also view it as an important tool. 5 One of the Path to Recovery 6 counselor recently reported she's now 7 receiving referrals from the CDCR 8 Mental Health Department at the prison. 9 I want to acknowledge that 10 inviting counselors from community 11 groups to come into the institution and 12 maintain the same confidentiality that 13 they had in the community to careful 14 planning and a leap of faith on the 15 CDCR's part. We have to have build a 16 positive, mutually respectful 17 relationship with community groups or 18 investigators, and carefully review 19 safety, security, and legal concerns. 20 Path to Recovery has also increased our 21 awareness in situations in which many 22 inmates may be at risk for sexual 23 abuse, but not reporting. 24 At one of the pilot sites, 25 the counselors were providing services Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 232 1 to an inmate who had been sexually 2 abused as a child and never received 3 any counseling or support, and indeed, 4 he had never told anyone. During the 5 course of the counseling, the inmate 6 also revealed being pressured by other 7 inmates to perform sexual acts. The 8 inmate stated that under no 9 circumstances was reporting it an 10 option. He feared retaliation from the 11 inmates, from feeling a great deal of 12 shame relating to the acknowledgment 13 that he is gay. However, he committed 14 Path to Recovery counselor to discuss 15 the safety concerns with the 16 correctional counselor without 17 disclosing the details of the threat. 18 And as a result, correctional counselor 19 took the appropriate steps and was able 20 to decrease inmates' risk by moving to 21 new housing. Not only does this avert 22 more serious problems, but it also 23 helps to develop a more positive 24 working relationship between the inmate 25 and his correctional counselor. And Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 233 1 that word certainly gets out within the 2 population. 3 In terms of prevention, the 4 impact of a respectful and caring 5 response to sexual assault cannot be 6 underestimated. A good example can be 7 seen in the case of an inmate who 8 reported a sexual assault by another 9 inmate. While interviewing the inmate, 10 the investigator informed him that he 11 could have access to a confidential 12 rape crisis counseling. And the 13 inmate, prior to that, was unwilling to 14 provide the investigator with any 15 information regarding the nature of the 16 potential risk for assault. But just 17 by virtue of the investigator offering 18 that option, the inmate provided full 19 details to the investigator, and 20 appropriate steps were taken. 21 This is just one example, 22 but it's clearly indicative of progress 23 we've made through this program. And I 24 can tell you this is not the only 25 example. Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 234 1 At both institutions, the 2 rape crisis counselors and 3 investigators have developed 4 cooperative professional relationships 5 that are apparent to any inmate with 6 whom they interact. 7 The counselors trust in the 8 investigator's ability to handle cases 9 sensitively and respectfully, carries 10 over to the inmate with whom the team 11 works. Perhaps, most importantly with 12 respect to prevention is the change in 13 culture that my last example 14 illustrated. 15 We all know that information 16 and rumor spread quickly in detention 17 settings. If the survivor had not felt 18 supported, he would be telling not to 19 report sexual abuse, as it is of 20 inmates who have been targeted for 21 sexual assault. And potential 22 perpetrators will see that the prison 23 is a place where survivors are believed 24 and supported and sexual assault 25 allegations are taken very seriously. Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 235 1 The Path to Recovery program 2 is part of an overall shift in how we 3 respond to sexual assault by providing 4 confidentiality. And counseling 5 relationship is a vital component of 6 the shift. The collaboration will stop 7 prison rape and local crisis -- excuse 8 me, rape crisis centers have shifted 9 our institutional culture in other ways 10 as well. 11 Prison, by default, can be a 12 dehumanizing environment. Programs, 13 such as Path to Recovery exert humanity 14 influence by changing expectation, 15 increase in available support, and 16 bringing in the influence of people who 17 are not in the detention environment 18 every day. In short, it challenges us 19 to think more expansively about what is 20 possible. 21 The more safe avenues we can 22 create for offenders to report, the 23 more reports that will be made. 24 Another one of our goals is that 25 individuals who might never file a Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 236 1 report would still be able to receive 2 services. An inmate who has been 3 sexually assaulted is likely to 4 experience a variety of emotional and 5 behavioral problems, particularly if he 6 or she believes there is no option but 7 to stay silent. So we believe, 8 therefore, that an increase in the 9 number of survivors of sexual assault 10 receiving counseling services will have 11 a positive overall impact on 12 institutional stability, safety and 13 community safety, also. We also expect 14 that for those that have had the 15 opportunity to participate in the 16 program, we will see a decrease in 17 reentry difficulties. 18 We see Path to Recovery 19 Project is one of the ways in which the 20 CDCR is putting the intent of PREA into 21 practice. We also have accomplished 22 some myth by staying around the idea 23 that providing confidential counseling 24 for inmates who have been sexually 25 assaulted is inconsistent with sound Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 237 1 correctional management. 2 In some, the in-house of 3 operating confidential counseling with 4 a trained crisis -- rape crisis 5 counselor has been an increased 6 awareness and understanding of sexual 7 violence among staff and inmates, an 8 increased capacity to fulfill a 9 rehabilitative mission and create an 10 environment that is more conducive to 11 reporting incidents of sexual abuse, a 12 positive shift in corrections culture, 13 inmate culture, and the perception of 14 inmates and officer by service 15 organizations in the surrounding 16 communities. 17 In addition, the project's 18 team approach means that the pilot 19 institutions are accountable to the 20 community and vice versa. Ultimately, 21 we believe that Path to Recovery will 22 result in an overall decrease in sexual 23 assault in our institution. 24 It's been an honor to speak 25 before the Commission on this Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 238 1 groundbreaking effort. I appreciate 2 that opportunity, and welcome any 3 further questions or comments that you 4 have. 5 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 6 Thank you, Ms. Still. 7 So these counselors are not 8 under any legal obligation to report. 9 They've been told by somebody who 10 sought their advice was sexually 11 assaulted? 12 MS. STILL: 13 That is correct. They do 14 not work for us. They work for the 15 Rape Crisis Center and, therefore, 16 their mandatory reporting requirements 17 are much different than the 18 department's or any employee of the 19 department. 20 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 21 And presumably, inmates are 22 seeking them out even though -- I would 23 assume the fact that if I were an 24 inmate and I sought an appointment with 25 one of these counselors, it would Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 239 1 become known that I had sought such an 2 appointment? 3 MS. STILL: 4 That is correct. However, 5 they are offered in terms of the way 6 they conduct it and the way that they 7 can request the appointment. It 8 also -- just the way that they request 9 the appointment is treated in a very 10 confidential manner also. 11 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 12 Thank you. 13 Are there -- Commissioners, 14 questions? 15 Commissioner Smith. 16 COMMISSIONER SMITH: 17 Ms. Still, I wonder -- I 18 mean, in reading your testimony, does 19 the -- do the rape counselors also 20 offer -- following up on Commissioner 21 Kaneb's question. Do they also offer 22 sort of general education to inmates 23 regardless of whether it's related to 24 report? That was the impression that I 25 got. It was more general education for Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 240 1 anybody so that it was sort of 2 institutionalized, and the system is 3 sort of mass whether it might be 4 involving any individual incident. 5 MS. STILL: 6 That is correct. We have a 7 very formalized PREA program. We have 8 policies. We have training. We have 9 videos. And so PREA awareness and 10 safety, we have the whole program. 11 We've created a partnership with Stop 12 Prisoner Rape to come in as one 13 component of our program so that 14 education, that interaction, getting 15 used to see the counselors and knowing 16 that they'll maintain that 17 confidentiality, is all part of having 18 a program that the offenders really 19 think that you take it seriously. And 20 they trust that you're going to do the 21 right thing. 22 COMMISSIONER SMITH: 23 And so to some extent, 24 having that comprehensive program also 25 provide some cover so that it doesn't Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 241 1 seem as if, okay, the Pathway to 2 Recover people aren't showing up, so 3 somebody must have been raped? 4 MS. STILL: 5 That is correct. Because 6 they could also be receiving counseling 7 about any type of abuse in their prior 8 history, not necessarily about 9 something that's happened right now. 10 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 11 Any type of sexual abuse or 12 any type of abuse at all? 13 MS. STILL: 14 Sexual abuse. 15 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 16 Thank you. 17 MS. STILL: 18 And I also just want to 19 point out, we also have our -- you 20 know, our mental health program, a 21 mental health reporting. And we will 22 follow the normal protocols that you 23 hear in the other system. This just an 24 added component. 25 CHAIRMAN KANEB: Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 242 1 Yes, Commissioner Fellner. 2 COMMISSIONER FELLNER: 3 The Path to Recovery is both 4 at the men's facility and at a women's 5 facility? 6 MS. STILL: 7 That's correct. 8 COMMISSIONER FELLNER: 9 And I know you're a director 10 of Female Offender Program, but I 11 wonder can you -- has -- what have you 12 learned in terms of -- are there 13 differences in how it's worked at a 14 men's facility versus the women? Are 15 there certain problems or obstacles? 16 Can you shed any light on -- is there a 17 gender difference here? 18 MS. STILL: 19 Sure. I worked and managed 20 and provided oversight to both male and 21 female prison. I just happen to be, 22 right now, over the female prison. In 23 addition to that, I also chair the PREA 24 Commission. So we -- our program 25 focuses on both the male and female Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 243 1 population. 2 But what I can say is there 3 may be logistical challenges, of 4 course, because an institution that has 5 6,000 versus an institution that has 6 2400 offenders, whether it be male or 7 female, that in and of itself are going 8 to create logistical issues. 9 But in terms of -- I'd say 10 both have real reluctance in terms of 11 our investigators about the liability 12 of this type of program. Probably the 13 male prison more so, although our 14 female also have concerns within the 15 institution. But the first 16 investigative team that came forward 17 and say, this is really working, was 18 our male facility. And then 19 subsequently right behind that, we had 20 some really great experiences in our 21 women's facility. So we've been very 22 happy, as had the wardens of those 23 facilities been. They rave about the 24 program. 25 COMMISSIONER FELLNER: Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 244 1 And how do you respond in 2 your statement, both what you said in 3 writing and speaking, about how you 4 respond to some of the investigators' 5 concerns? How do you respond to the 6 questions that were -- how do you 7 handle housing? I mean, if somebody 8 is -- if a man is being threatened by 9 someone and you can't -- it's not 10 reported, it's not known, so he may 11 remain being double celled or -- with 12 the person who is victimizing him? 13 What's -- how are you handling that? 14 MS. STILL: 15 Well, I think look at the 16 purpose of the counseling in and of 17 itself. An offender may want to have 18 someone to talk to. If they're having 19 a housing concern, they are either 20 going to deal with it or not, 21 irregardless if that crisis counseling 22 is taking place. If they are serious 23 about wanting a housing move, they will 24 come forward,or they will try through 25 other ways -- I have to somewhat use Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 245 1 the word "manipulative" -- to try and 2 achieve that housing move. 3 If an incident is reported 4 to our mental health or healthcare 5 staff, they will work very closely with 6 our custody. The question came up 7 earlier about if you're a healthcare 8 staff, if something was reported, could 9 they facilitate a move. 10 We pay close attention. We 11 don't -- sometimes we need as much 12 detail, of course, as possible to 13 protect the inmate so that we don't 14 move them back in. But that inmate is 15 not telling that rape crisis counselor 16 because he or she wants a cell move. 17 They're wanting to download the 18 emotionalism and all -- all the 19 feelings that go along with that. They 20 don't tell them because of the safety 21 concerns. But what those counselors 22 will try and do is, even though they 23 belong to the Rape Crisis and outside 24 the department, try to convince them to 25 at least allow them to go forward with Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 246 1 enough information, as the example I 2 gave, so that a housing move could be 3 facilitated, or the safety could be 4 protected. 5 So there still is that 6 cooperation that goes between the 7 counselors. I just think it creates 8 more credibility to the program. And 9 again, the more that we can break down 10 the environment or the culture to where 11 the offenders really believe it's going 12 to be taken seriously, the more 13 effective we are going to be in terms 14 of maintaining their -- or protecting 15 their safety. 16 COMMISSIONER FELLNER: 17 Could I ask one followup to 18 that? 19 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 20 Yes. 21 COMMISSIONER FELLNER: 22 Could you do the same thing 23 and have the same impact and trust or 24 whatnot if the counseling was being 25 done by department staff? Does it have Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 247 1 to be an outside agency? 2 MS. STILL: 3 I think right now where our 4 system is at, and I think where many 5 systems are at, is it's about trust. 6 And so -- and I think that that's what 7 that outside crisis counseling 8 represents to them, objective, 9 independent. They're not CDCR. 10 I do believe as more 11 programs like that are rolled out and 12 the cultures are broken down and the 13 inmate see a change, I think it will 14 become more viable for our staff to 15 provide also that type of an 16 alternative. And our mental health 17 staff can and do now provide it when 18 asked for. But a lot of times the 19 inmates won't want to necessarily talk 20 to our mental health staff. And so 21 this is just another avenue for them. 22 COMMISSIONER FELLNER: 23 Because your mental health 24 staff would have to report it? 25 MS. STILL: Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 248 1 Exactly. Because of the 2 mandatory reporting. 3 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 4 Ms. Still, is this program 5 in compliance with your own PREA Act, 6 or is it something you're undertaking 7 just because you think it's a good 8 thing to do? 9 MS. STILL: 10 Well, it's really in 11 compliance with our own state PREA law, 12 which requires us to develop 13 partnerships and work with outside 14 entities, you know, to all of our 15 programs. We also have a PREA 16 commission that I chair, and the Stop 17 Prison Rape since this. It's a part of 18 our PREA commission. As you see, 19 Irvine was mentioned earlier. We've 20 done a lot of research in our system. 21 We're getting ready to do more 22 research. 23 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 24 So you're saying your Act 25 requires CDCR to cooperate with outside Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 249 1 entities to prevent -- to deal with 2 prison rape? 3 MS. STILL: 4 It requires us to work in 5 collaboration with community partners 6 to end prison rape. 7 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 8 Commissioner Puryear wants 9 to ask a question, but one last -- and 10 I assume, whether it's MOU or others, 11 they are being paid for the service? 12 MS. STILL: 13 They are. And how they're 14 being paid for their service in terms 15 of $500 grants to the crisis center, 16 it's really nominal. They do that as 17 part of their charter. 18 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 19 Okay. So in order to work, 20 this program requires, at least from a 21 budgetary point of view, a low cost 22 availability of fairly skilled people 23 to make -- to make it function. I 24 guess I'm asking that as a question. 25 MS. STILL: Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 250 1 That is correct. And 2 depending upon the use of the services, 3 right now, I believe with our MOU 4 provides is the $500 grant toward the 5 crisis center for their cost and 6 services for really establishing the 7 program and a little bit of travel. 8 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 9 This is very interesting. 10 Excuse me. commissioner Puryear has 11 questions for you. 12 COMMISSIONER PURYEAR: 13 Just one quick question. 14 Have you determined whether 15 there's been any impact on the 16 prosecution for sexual assaults, either 17 of staff, other inmates, in result of 18 paths to recovery? 19 MS. STILL: 20 No. We've seen no impact 21 quite -- in terms of the prosecutions. 22 The few -- the examples that I've given 23 to the two institutions, the 24 investigators are very pleased because 25 they're getting more information. Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 251 1 They're getting information that they 2 wouldn't have gotten before. And one 3 of the cases led directly to a 4 prosecution. So it's -- it's opening 5 up more information coming to the 6 investigators. 7 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 8 Other questions of 9 Ms. Still? 10 COMMISSIONER SMITH: 11 I just have one -- one 12 question. 13 Ms. Still, one of the thing 14 is that -- you know, and I raised this 15 question earlier. In California's 16 scheme, can rape crisis counselors 17 provide services to people in custody 18 to defendants? Because I know that 19 that's -- that in some jurisdictions 20 they're not able to provide those 21 services. So I'm wondering how you 22 guys are managing that, or sort of 23 getting around that barrier, if there 24 is one. 25 MS. STILL: Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 252 1 Well, that's why the $500 2 grant to them, because there is a 3 barrier. Some of -- some of the crisis 4 centers will do that, and they have the 5 money to operate. But in reality, they 6 can't use any of their funds that they 7 get from the feds, as I understand it, 8 for that purpose we're talking about. 9 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 10 Well, thank you very much. 11 This has been an enlightening 12 presentation. 13 COMMISSIONER FELLNER: 14 Has our staff asked you or 15 gotten -- is it possible for us to get 16 your research results? You've done 17 research; the monograph was mentioned. 18 Have we got -- has the Commission's 19 staff contacted you to get copies of 20 it? 21 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 22 Yes. We have -- we have-- 23 Professor Cooksbury (phonetic) is 24 raising his hands and putting his thumb 25 up to your -- Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 253 1 COMMISSIONER FELLNER: 2 Okay. Thank you. 3 MS. STILL: 4 We have a subsequent 5 research project getting ready to 6 start. We will be happy to provide 7 that when it's finished. 8 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 9 Thank you again. 10 Ms. Sander. 11 MS. SANDER: 12 Hi, I'm Lynn Sander, and I'm 13 also going to be talking about 14 confidentiality reporting. I listened 15 in this morning, and I heard many 16 things and it brought stuff to my mind. 17 And so I'm not going to be reading from 18 my thing. I'm trying to -- some things 19 that came to mind -- 20 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 21 Thank you. 22 MS. SANDER: 23 -- and I tried to rearrange, 24 but I did not have a computer where I 25 can cut and paste and put things in Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 254 1 that order. Hopefully, I will be able 2 to follow my arrows on my piece of 3 paper. 4 One thing that I wanted to 5 mention that I've heard over and over 6 again that people are talking about, 7 who are we talking about, and who are 8 we talking about. And we hear a lot 9 about male on male prisoner rape. I 10 have not heard any talk about female on 11 female prisoner rape, and that happens 12 as well. Obviously, there's not 13 necessarily a penetration, but there 14 can be a lot of sexual coercion amongst 15 female population, and I have females 16 report that to me. We also talked 17 about inmate and officer rape, and that 18 can go both direction. It can be 19 either heterosexual or homosexual. And 20 I just wanted these things stated. 21 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 22 Thank you. 23 MS. SANDER: 24 The other issue is the issue 25 of the victim who becomes a Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 255 1 perpetrator, or the perpetrator who 2 becomes a victim. And I think again, 3 we talked about -- touched on that a 4 little bit. And I think, again, that 5 we need -- all these things need to be 6 addressed. 7 I come from mostly a jail 8 background. And I think I am probably 9 half a little -- because I come from a 10 very progressive administration, and 11 the inmates in that facility trust most 12 medical -- most of the medical staff 13 and most of the custody staff and felt 14 very comfortable in reporting. As a 15 matter of fact, most cases brought to 16 my attention were brought by the 17 officers. The inmates report it to the 18 officers, and they brought the person 19 to medical to then get them evaluated. 20 So it's a very different situation. 21 I'm also here representing 22 NCCH, which is the National Commission 23 of Correctional Healthcare, has asked 24 me to come and talk a little bit about 25 their standards. And I am the Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 256 1 immediate past-president of the Society 2 of Correctional Physicians, and I'm on 3 their board. And both of those 4 organizations, I'm sure, would be happy 5 to work with you in developing 6 standards. They have their own 7 standards and they also have policy, 8 and we'll be happy to work with you. 9 I think when you're talking 10 about confidentiality, the most 11 important thing confidentiality gives 12 you is trust. And without trust, 13 you're not going to get reporting. If 14 they don't trust that you're going to 15 use that information in a way that's 16 helpful to them and will not bring harm 17 to them, then they're not going to 18 report, and you're going to defeat your 19 purposes. The other thing that -- and 20 if you didn't get reporting to either 21 medical or security, you don't get 22 treatment. 23 We heard someone say just 24 this morning that most of these people 25 go back to the community. If you don't Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 257 1 get treatment, you're harming the 2 community in an additional way because 3 you're bringing it back to the 4 community, if there's no prophylactic 5 treatment. So we need to consider all 6 these factors. 7 And now I'm going to go in 8 the NCCH standards. There is a 9 standard on the procedural for sexual 10 assault. Their primary thing they 11 said -- the first recommendation is 12 that you send patients to a facility 13 that's equipped to do the proper 14 evaluation of the patient, both from 15 the medical and forensic point of view. 16 I personally think that there are a lot 17 of real benefits to that. 18 In-house -- the medical 19 staff has to take care both the victim 20 and the perpetrator as their primary 21 care physician and nursing staff. And 22 if you are taking sides in that case, 23 that really prevents you from doing 24 your mission of what you're really 25 there in a correctional institution to Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 258 1 do. 2 If you send them out to a 3 hospital or facility, first of all, 4 they're going to have people there with 5 the training to do that properly. Most 6 correctional institutions, especially 7 small jails, are not going to have 8 people with the experience and the 9 training. They're not going to have 10 the mental health staff and the proper 11 rape counselors there to followup with 12 those patients. So I think it's 13 really -- I take that as one ideal way 14 to do it. 15 The other thing that it does 16 is, in every state has a law, have -- 17 have various reporting laws. Most of 18 them rape is a crime. Sexual assault 19 is a crime. And therefore, there is 20 mandatory reporting just as with child 21 abuse. If you bring them to a hospital 22 ER setting to manage them, they are 23 required to report that, and they will 24 call the police on it. The police will 25 start the investigation, but then the Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 259 1 police will report back to the 2 correctional institute. It really 3 takes your staff at the institution out 4 of the loop, which I think is very 5 helpful. 6 If you're in an institution 7 where you really have all this, you 8 have the rape kits, you have medical 9 staff who have gone through proper 10 training, then at the very least they 11 should be brought for medical 12 evaluation. They should get sexually 13 transmitted disease testing. They 14 should get mental health counseling. 15 And you should ensure the safe -- now 16 there's been a lot of talk. How do you 17 ensure safety? And what do you tell 18 the officers when you, as a medical 19 person, make a recommendation to move 20 them? Well, you can say, I'm concerned 21 for this person's safety. He has some 22 medical conditions that, probably if it 23 got out to the other inmates, would put 24 him in harm's way. And I think you 25 should put him in some kind of Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 260 1 protective custody. 2 In the institution I work 3 with, that would be enough. That may 4 not be true in all institutions, and 5 there's a lot of concern for 6 prosecution. And ideally, we all want 7 every perpetrator of every crime 8 prosecuted, investigated, and punished. 9 But the reality is, in the 10 outside world, if a woman is raped they 11 can report it but she doesn't have to 12 say, I want to prosecute for male 13 sexual assault. So why should an 14 inmate be treated differently? I mean, 15 if you look at the constitutional 16 standards, there's community standards. 17 A person has a choice whether they want 18 that perpetrator prosecuted. So even 19 though, you know -- especially in the 20 correctional environment, you really 21 want -- you know, your mentality is 22 more towards that. We need to remember 23 that they're under the same laws in 24 that regard as anybody else. 25 Now, whether the institution Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 261 1 then feels, well, we have our own 2 internal procedures that we want to go 3 through. That's fine. But a true 4 criminal prosecution really can't take 5 place without the victims' willingness 6 for that to take place, unless there's 7 a law, such as domestic violence, where 8 you can prosecute the partner without 9 the victim. 10 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 11 Excuse me, Ms. Sander. 12 Unfortunately, I have mismanaged the 13 clock here. 14 MS. SANDER: 15 Okay. 16 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 17 So I need to ask you to -- 18 if you'll -- and I thank you for not 19 reading your statement. -- wrap up, and 20 we will have questions. 21 MS. SANDER: 22 Yeah. I think I really 23 pretty much said it all, so you came at 24 a perfect timing. 25 CHAIRMAN KANEB: Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 262 1 Well, thank you. I will now 2 take even greater advantage of my 3 mismanagement. Would I just be able to 4 ask you this. 5 What if the answer to your 6 question about why a victim should not 7 have to have his or her victimization 8 reported is that sex in prison is 9 illegal, and it's not a matter of you 10 not wanting your rape to be reported. 11 It's a matter that sex took place, and 12 that it's a crime. Is that an answer 13 to your -- would that suggestion be 14 optional on the part of the victim? 15 MS. SANDER: 16 Yes. But what I'm saying 17 is, for any crime, a victim has the 18 opportunity to say, I don't wish to 19 press charges. That's what I'm saying. 20 It's not that it's not a crime. It's 21 not that they don't acknowledge it as a 22 crime, 'cause they don't want to press 23 charges. 24 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 25 I'm out of my element. I'm Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 263 1 not a lawyer. Are there other 2 questions of Ms. Sanders? 3 All right. Thank you. 4 And, Ms. Hill, I give you 5 what time you -- you need here. I 6 apologize. 7 MS. HILL: 8 Should I talk really fast 9 then? Well, good afternoon. It is a 10 privilege for me to present to you on 11 PREA, specifically on issues of 12 confidentiality reporting from a legal 13 and corrections perspective. 14 Undoubtedly, this whole process of 15 eliminating rapes is an allottable one, 16 and it is heinous. And it is one we 17 should all unite in this amazing effort 18 to do that. 19 The United States Supreme 20 Court has recognized that such offenses 21 are not part of the penalty that 22 prisoners are sentenced to suffer. In 23 my 20 years in corrections field as a 24 former general counsel to the Utah 25 Department of Corrections and in my Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 264 1 training to the jails in -- nationally, 2 we teach them that it's not only the 3 inmates having Eighth Amendment rights 4 to be free from cruel and unusual 5 punishment, but we in corrections have 6 a duty, and it's a strong duty, to 7 protect these inmates from harm. 8 Exactly how corrections goes 9 about protecting their inmates, 10 especially from rape, is not so simple 11 as has been mentioned. Decisions 12 regarding prisoners require delicate 13 balancing between the prisoners' rights 14 and corrections' obligation to maintain 15 a safe and secure environment. But 16 also as the Supreme Court has 17 recognized, there is a need to defer to 18 corrections and how best to operate 19 their facilities on a day-to-day basis. 20 And as the Commission 21 mandates -- mandates on the issues of 22 confidentiality and reporting, I 23 respectfully request that you recommend 24 broad policies, which allow the 25 administrators in the trenches to best Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 265 1 determine how procedurally to implement 2 the mandate, recognizing that the 3 resources of a very small jail are 4 vastly different than that of a huge 5 prison. They are unique. 6 In addition, I also would 7 like to encourage the Commission to 8 consider the appropriation of monies 9 for much needed mental healthcare, and 10 also for training to make PREA a 11 reality. As progressions go with -- 12 mandatory reporting goes, one critical 13 issue is to whom such report should be 14 made. We've heard so much about this. 15 There is no specific legal requirement 16 as to how an institution gathered -- 17 gathered its information regarding 18 protecting its prisoners. What is key, 19 and as everyone has mentioned, is that 20 the prisoner reports, and then that 21 information somehow gets to security. 22 I speak generally that how 23 the prisoner -- or prisoners are more 24 likely to report when they feel 25 comfortable in telling; that has been Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 266 1 said. Requiring prisoners, however, to 2 report to one specific person or a type 3 of person may be too restrictive, 4 depending on resources available to 5 that particular institution. Again, 6 deference to correctional 7 administrators on how and to whom the 8 individuals should report, remembering 9 that very small jails have very limited 10 resources from community. At a minimum 11 though, corrections should make 12 reporting mechanisms part of every 13 prisoner's orientation. Second, 14 mandatory reporting should be required 15 of all staff, vendors, and visitors who 16 know of or suspect that a prisoner may 17 be a victim so that correctional staff 18 can respond. 19 Knowledge is essential in 20 our correctional system. Unlawful 21 conduct, such as rape, must be reported 22 to security staff so that they can 23 fulfill the objective of maintaining a 24 safe and secure environment. 25 Protecting the victim, once identified, Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 267 1 securing the crime scene, providing 2 necessary mental health treatment, 3 protecting other criminal -- or other 4 prisoners from possible future harm 5 from the alleged perpetrator, 6 reclassifying the prisoner, if 7 necessary, and disciplining both 8 administrative and criminally are 9 obligations that security, in fact, 10 has. 11 There has been mention of 12 housing, and I would like to touch on 13 that just real briefly. One of the 14 recommendations we do when we're 15 training is to encourage corrections to 16 triage with medical on all issues -- 17 all cases involving inmates so that 18 housing decisions can be made together. 19 Maybe even without getting in all the 20 specifics, but clearly, corrections has 21 to be involved in that. 22 Decisions regarding 23 confidentiality require, again, that 24 balancing act between the victims' 25 desire to confidentiality and the Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 268 1 corrections' constitutional need to 2 protect not only the victims but all of 3 the other prisoners. The general 4 practice in corrections is that 5 security has access to all confidential 6 files, including medical on a need to 7 know basis for legitimate penological 8 purposes, specifically housing 9 decisions, classification decisions, 10 decisions as well as vulnerability and 11 protection issues, specifically on the 12 issue of rape. 13 The reporting of a rape, 14 including the identity of the alleged 15 perpetrator, cannot be kept 16 confidential from corrections, and must 17 be reported to security staff so that 18 they could take immediate action 19 against -- to protect the victim for 20 classification decisions, for 21 disciplinary issues, et cetera. 22 In addition, medical staff 23 should be required to report, and I 24 would ask that they be exempt from any 25 statutory liability for doing so. The Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 269 1 doctors who we work with and we talk 2 with, all want to protect that 3 particular inmate, and are all feeling 4 this tear between their privilege and 5 this confidential information and the 6 need to also share it with corrections. 7 So if this were to -- and how this 8 happens, I encourage you to look at 9 some statutory exemptions for them. 10 I applaud the Commission for 11 its goal. Eliminating rape in our 12 jails and prisons is one shared by 13 every correctional professional that I 14 work with. But I also encourage us to 15 look at broad policies in making these 16 mandates with specific procedurals 17 going to the individual institution, 18 again, recognizing that a very small 19 jail has very different resources and 20 allocation as that of a super max-type 21 of prison. 22 I thank you very much, and 23 I'm opened to your questions. 24 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 25 Thank you, Ms. Hill. So I Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 270 1 understand what you're asking in 2 respect to leaving the medical 3 professionals' liability, would you 4 please restate that again? 5 MS. HILL: 6 Some type of exemption. If 7 a doctor works within a facility -- 8 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 9 A doctor or a nurse? 10 MS. HILL: 11 Correct. Let's call it 12 medical. The question is whether or 13 not there is a privilege between the 14 doctor and the inmate, and it's a 15 questionable one. The doctor will tell 16 you -- and everyone will recognize that 17 there's a doctor-patient privilege. 18 The question then becomes, if there is 19 a legitimate governmental interest, 20 does medical have -- or does security 21 have access to that information? And 22 the practice is, that they do. 23 They need to have access to 24 that medical information in making 25 determinations regarding Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 271 1 classification, regarding housing for 2 protection purposes, whatever it might 3 be. So many doctors, medical 4 profession, may feel conflicted 5 mandatory reporting. They have a 6 privilege that they see, and yet 7 security staff needs this information 8 for making decisions, again, on housing 9 classification, et cetera. 10 So I guess if they do 11 report, what I'm asking is that there 12 would be an exemption on them from 13 liability. 14 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 15 Against by a claim by the 16 victim that they had breached a 17 confidential patient-doctor 18 relationship? 19 MS. HILL: 20 Correct. 21 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 22 Do you think that medical 23 staff now feel they are exposed to such 24 liability? 25 MS. HILL: Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 272 1 I have several doctors who 2 have expressed the concern and asked 3 whether or not you would at least 4 consider it, depending upon how the 5 language and how reporting comes down. 6 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 7 Okay. Well, we are a 8 federal commission, and we are, 9 basically, going to develop standards 10 that are going to be meant for the 11 federal system. And their degree of -- 12 of jurisdiction in non-federal systems 13 is -- 14 MS. HILL: 15 I understand. 16 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 17 -- to be silenced, so. But 18 thank you. 19 Commissioner Fellner. 20 COMMISSIONER FELLNER: 21 I have a question from your 22 written statement about Broward County, 23 Florida. 24 MS. HILL: 25 Yes. Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 273 1 COMMISSIONER FELLNER: 2 You say that it requires all 3 staff, contractor, vendors, and 4 visitors who know or suspect that a 5 prisoner may be a victim must report. 6 By visitors, do you mean 7 family, friends are also under the 8 obligation to report, or do you mean 9 official -- what is the scope of the 10 mandatory reporting here? 11 MS. HILL: 12 And you're asking me a very 13 good question, and I can't specifically 14 answer 'cause it's general. It's not 15 defined. But the general policy is, as 16 I understand it, is that anyone -- 17 anyone who has access to an inmate is 18 required to report any indication of 19 sexual abuse, whatever that might be, 20 and whether it be to any staff member 21 that they come into contact with. 22 COMMISSIONER FELLNER: 23 Do you think that it is 24 meant to extend to family, friends, not 25 officials, that that's a good idea? Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 274 1 MS. HILL: 2 And I don't think that's 3 generally who they were referring to. 4 I'm assuming they might have been 5 referring to people who are visiting. 6 And I don't have a specific definition 7 on that. And it's one that I'll be 8 absolutely more than willing to 9 followup with you. 10 The purpose, I think, behind 11 it is, is that all staff, vendors, 12 everyone tells -- anyone who comes in 13 contact with the visitor should be 14 required to report so that we can 15 immediately protect the victim and, 16 again, start looking whether there's a 17 crime scene and whether or not we have 18 to look at classification, 19 investigation, etc. But the idea is 20 mandatory reporting for anyone coming 21 into contact with an inmate for sexual 22 abuse. 23 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 24 That's certainly -- thank 25 you. Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 275 1 Are there other questions? 2 Yes, Commissioner 3 Struckman-Johnson. 4 COMMISSIONER STRUCKMAN-JOHNSON: 5 Mr. Beeler and Mr. Puisis, 6 would you respond to Ms. Still's idea 7 of recovering -- Pathway to Recovery? 8 If you could have a conversation about 9 what you think about that. I'll ask 10 either one of you. Does that sound 11 good? 12 MR. PUISIS: 13 I'm sorry. I didn't 14 understand your question. 15 COMMISSIONER STRUCKMAN-JOHNSON: 16 What do you think about the 17 Pathway to Recovery program? Does it 18 sound like a solution to either one of 19 you? Technically, you can have -- you 20 can have treatment without reporting, 21 so 22 DR. PUISIS: 23 Well, I -- I think the 24 strong part of it is that it's an 25 outside entity, so it removes the Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 276 1 problem outside of the prison where 2 there's likely to be more pressure on 3 staff to be seen as part of the 4 correctional machinery. And so by 5 getting -- it's very similar to -- I 6 agree very much with the 7 recommendation, that if someone's raped 8 to take them outside the prison for 9 medical evaluation. I think that's a 10 very sound principle. 11 In the same sense, I think 12 what that stands for is removing the 13 counseling piece to an outside entity. 14 And I think that's allottable. But 15 obviously, you cannot sustain a system 16 like that if it's a pro bono system. 17 And I think the Chair mentioned that -- 18 he was talking about that, that there 19 has been mechanisms that can sustain. 20 But I think it's a good 21 system. It ensures counseling. It 22 ensures an inmate an avenue to talk to 23 someone who they feel is -- may not be 24 compromised, regardless of physicians 25 who work in corrections field Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 277 1 themselves relative to patients. 2 Inmates may not see it that way. I 3 think it's, overall, a good thing. 4 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 5 Mr. Beeler, did you have 6 something you want to say on this 7 subject? 8 MR. BEELER: 9 Certainly, sir. Thank you. 10 It boils down to a matter of trust. 11 And where is the trust laid? If the 12 trust is laid in an outside resource, 13 the only caveat I would put there -- 14 and she made -- Ms. Still made this 15 caveat. Is there a danger to somebody 16 else, to themselves, or others? The 17 only question I raise to that is, how 18 do they know where the danger lies? 19 And that's my only concern there, 20 because they're not going to know all 21 the time where the danger lies. And 22 that's my biggest issue, making sure 23 that the safety of that individual 24 is -- I mean, it's a dynamic mentioned 25 with this all along. It's the safety Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 278 1 of that individual. It's not just all 2 about the prosecution of the 3 offender -- of the perpetrator. It's 4 about the safety of the individual too 5 and the safety of that institution and 6 the safety of other people who may be 7 victimized. 8 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 9 Thank you. 10 Commissioner Smith. 11 COMMISSIONER SMITH: 12 I thank the entire panel. 13 And I think one of the reason that we 14 wanted to do this panel is because all 15 of the issues around privilege, 16 reporting, HIPAA, other ethical -- I 17 mean, you guys have done a great job in 18 trying to make it clear. But I have to 19 still say that it's clear as mud to me. 20 Because I think -- Ms. Hill, 21 when you -- it sounds like in your 22 testimony you suggest that there's sort 23 of be a broader standard that would 24 kind of help deal with these privilege 25 issues. But as you also recognize, Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 279 1 privilege stuff is very much state 2 based, and it goes across clergy -- and 3 often these matters are reported to 4 clergy. -- physicians, drug counselors, 5 so on and so forth. So I think that 6 this is really something that the 7 Commission is going to have to struggle 8 with. But I think that you've added 9 tremendously, and also you as well as, 10 Ms. Sander, have added tremendously in 11 terms of identifying some resources 12 that are all in one place that we did 13 not know were available. So I 14 really -- I appreciate it, and will go 15 back and try to wade through. So thank 16 you. 17 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 18 Let me just finish by saying 19 the matter of reporting, the 20 effectiveness of reporting, the 21 availability of reporting, the trust in 22 reporting, we know is absolutely 23 essential to constructing a safe house 24 here for potential victims. This has 25 been helpful. We're putting a lot of Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 280 1 work in it. 2 I hope you know that we're 3 consulting with lots of different 4 people, you know, in several days a 5 week outside of the hearing process. I 6 know professionals in the industry 7 would know that, but. We are gathering 8 a lot of information and taking it very 9 seriously. So thank you so much. 10 Thank you. And now we're 11 going to have a brief recess. And 12 we'll come back at 2:30. 13 (Off the record.) 14 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 15 Ladies and gentlemen, we're 16 resuming. Our next panel is seated, 17 and I would ask that the other people 18 also seat themselves at this time. 19 At this point we swear in 20 our panelist. Unfortunately, my 21 general counsel and officer does that 22 is not here at the moment. Actually, I 23 might even do it myself. 24 COMMISSIONER FELLNER: 25 Go for it. Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 281 1 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 2 So would you -- would you 3 all please rise and raise your right 4 hands? 5 (Four witnesses sworn.) 6 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 7 Thank you. Be seated. 8 This panel is entitled, as 9 you see, Sexual Violence and Community 10 Corrections: The Special 11 Considerations of Community-based 12 Settings. 13 I'm pleased to welcome our 14 next four panelists, Carrie Abner, 15 Thomas Beauclair, Denise Robinson, and 16 Barbara Broderick. 17 The area of justice -- 18 statistics show that sexual assaults 19 occur not only in institutions but also 20 in community corrections. The field of 21 community corrections recognizes the 22 ability of PREA in striving to comply 23 with the requirements. Many 24 corrections involve a multi-direct 25 dimensional approach supervising Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 282 1 offenders. The very sort -- creates 2 challenges for officials when they're 3 addressing sexual assault. Authorities 4 are in the process of identifying 5 barriers and developing strategies to 6 address these complexities of PREA when 7 apply for community corrections. 8 And I will just say that as 9 we learn more and more about what PREA 10 must be, an action, we do very much 11 appreciate the complexity of applying 12 it in a community corrections setting. 13 That's not to deter us, and please be 14 assure of that. 15 The panelist will discuss 16 unique concerns faced by community 17 correction professionals as they deal 18 with the tension of sexual violence of 19 response victims in their case. 20 Our first panelist is Carrie 21 Abner. She is a research associate 22 from the American Probation & Parole 23 Association. Ms. Abner directs 24 projects related to correctional 25 response to sexual assault in Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 283 1 correctional settings. 2 Our second is Thomas 3 Beauclair, who is the deputy director 4 of the National Institute of 5 Corrections. And I see has funded 6 several projects intended to initiate 7 PREA within community corrections. 8 Our third panelist is Denise 9 Robinson, who is the president of Alvis 10 House and past-president, International 11 Community Corrections Association. She 12 is also commissioner -- or commissioner 13 on her accreditation for corrections. 14 Ms. Robinson has experience in 15 operating halfway houses accreditation 16 and speaking on international affairs. 17 And fourth, is Barbara 18 Broderick, who is the director of Adult 19 Probation of Maricopa County, which is 20 the sixth largest probation department 21 in the United States. 22 I believe that is the 23 Phoenix area, is it not? 24 MS. BRODERICK: 25 Yes. Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 284 1 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 2 With over 1200 employees. 3 Ms. Broderick has experience in working 4 with urban and rural tribal corrections 5 and expertise on probation, parole, and 6 pretrial services. 7 Thank you. 8 MS. ABNER: 9 Mr. Chairman and members of 10 the Commission, first of all, I'd like 11 to thank you on behalf of APPA, the 12 American Probation & Parole 13 Association, for the opportunity to 14 testify before you today. 15 I'd like to begin with a 16 brief overview of communication 17 correction, which is a diverse field 18 that oversee nearly 70 percent of the 19 adult population and nearly 700,000 20 juveniles nationwide. The terms 21 "probation" and "parole" in community 22 corrections are often used 23 interchangeably; however, the field is 24 much broader, much more diverse than 25 just probation and parole. Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 285 1 Beyond probation and parole, 2 community corrections includes pretrial 3 services, residential treatment 4 programs, halfway houses, work release, 5 court diversionary programs, home 6 detention, secure detention, and 7 community service programs. 8 Community corrections agencies exist 9 with federal, state, county, and 10 municipal levels, and can be housed in 11 either the judicial or executive 12 branches. In addition to public 13 agencies, many private company and 14 nonprofit organizations provide 15 critical community corrections programs 16 and services. Common among all these 17 agencies, however, are the goals of 18 achieving offender accountability, 19 behavior change, and cost effectiveness 20 with the ultimate goal of improving 21 public safety. 22 Given the nature of the 23 community corrections field, there are 24 certain challenges to the 25 implementation of PREA. Perhaps one of Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 286 1 the biggest of these challenges lies in 2 the name itself, the Prison Rape 3 Elimination Act. Unfortunately, since 4 its passage, PREA has been widely 5 misunderstood as being relevant only to 6 our nation's prison, with many of us in 7 the community corrections field 8 wondering, what does PREA have to do 9 with me? Efforts to dispel -- or 10 having a positive impact, nevertheless 11 many unanswered questions remain. 12 For instance, while some programs like 13 residential facilities clearly fall 14 under PREA, its breach over probation 15 and parole function is less obvious. 16 Community correction agencies and staff 17 need clear guidance on their 18 responsibilities under PREA. 19 APPA commend the Commission 20 for its inclusion for community 21 corrections experts in the standards 22 development process. Once developed, 23 these standards will set the foundation 24 for efforts to educate community 25 corrections agencies and staff on the Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 287 1 important role they can and must play 2 in addressing corrections of sexual 3 assault. In the meantime, however, 4 APPA recognizes the need to continue 5 raising awareness about PREA within the 6 field, and developing the buy in so 7 crucial to its incorporation in the 8 policy and practice. 9 In the development of the 10 law, Congress found that prison rape 11 endangers the public's safety by making 12 brutalized inmates more likely to 13 commit crimes when they are released, 14 as 600,000 adult inmates are each year 15 given the majority of probationers and 16 parolees can sometime in custody, the 17 community corrections field has an 18 obvious role in safeguarding 19 communities. 20 To fulfill this role, 21 however, community corrections agencies 22 need clear policy and protocols for 23 detecting, reporting, investigating, 24 and responding to incidents of sexual 25 assault. Given the vast diversity of Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 288 1 the field, policies and procedures must 2 be customized to each individual 3 agency. No single model policy or 4 protocol will be appropriate for all 5 settings. Identifying the variety of 6 vulnerability for sexual assault, as 7 well as methods for preventing and 8 responding to incidents that are 9 appropriate to the range of community 10 corrections, agencies, and programs 11 will be a daunting but necessary task. 12 In addition, training on 13 PREA is greatly needed for community 14 corrections staff. Caseloads are 15 already large, and workloads continue 16 to expand as both the number of adults 17 and juveniles under community 18 supervision, and supervision 19 requirements, have increased over the 20 past two decades. In an environment 21 where staff are being asked to do more 22 with less, there may be some reluctance 23 to taking on additional 24 responsibilities. Nevertheless, the 25 community corrections field recognizes Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 289 1 that supervision strategies must 2 address the range of factors that 3 affect the behavior of an offender, 4 including sexual assault victimization 5 and perpetration. It is critical, 6 therefore, that training underscores 7 the importance of recognizing and 8 responding to incidents of sexual 9 assault for the effective supervision 10 of an offender in the community. 11 Frontline community 12 corrections staff are in a unique 13 position to detect sexual assault 14 victimization and perpetration in 15 correctional environment through 16 conversations with offenders, 17 information received from family, 18 friends, employers, and external 19 agencies, as well as direct 20 observations of offender activities. 21 Line staff are the eyes and ears of 22 community corrections and are, 23 therefore, likely to be first 24 responders in these settings. 25 Training for line staff Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 290 1 should provide instructions on 2 recognizing the red flags of sexual 3 assault, conducting interviews on 4 sexual assault victimization, reporting 5 incidents, preserving evidence, 6 requesting investigations, maintaining 7 confidentiality, referring victims and 8 perpetrators to appropriate -- 9 appropriate treatment and services, and 10 developing appropriate supervision 11 strategy for victims and perpetrators 12 alike. 13 Equally important, line 14 staff and supervisors can play an 15 important role from preventing sexual 16 assaults from occurring, and should be 17 trained accordingly. Line staff are 18 the conduit of information to 19 offenders, and should inform each 20 offender of their rights to be 21 protected against sexual assault by 22 other offenders as well as by agency 23 staff, volunteers, and contractors 24 while under correctional supervisors. 25 Staff in residential Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 291 1 facilities should be trained in utilize 2 classification systems to identify 3 offenders who may be vulnerable to 4 sexual assault as well as possible 5 perpetrators, and make appropriate 6 housing decisions. Moreover, as a 7 result of a decade long effort to 8 address staff sexual misconduct, many 9 agencies provides staff training on 10 maintaining appropriate boundaries in 11 relationship with offenders under 12 supervision. Training on staff sexual 13 misconduct should continue to be 14 provided to community corrections 15 professionals to enhance adherence to 16 principles of PREA. 17 Information sharing on 18 sexual assault is also critical to 19 response efforts, but must be 20 approached carefully to ensure that 21 victims receive appropriate treatment 22 and offenders are held accountable. 23 Community corrections agencies must be 24 able to share information on sexual 25 assault incidents with a variety of Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 292 1 organizations, including institutional 2 facilities, treatment providers, and 3 medical and mental health services. 4 Clear guidance on how such information 5 should be shared, however, among and 6 within agencies is needed to protect 7 the privacy of victims and prevent 8 further trauma. 9 Another challenge for the 10 community corrections field is ensuring 11 compliance across all agencies. 12 Community corrections agencies need 13 guidance on how contracts -- contract 14 and memorandums of understanding, 15 without that partner and service 16 providers, how would you incorporate 17 and address PREA? Despite the many 18 challenges that exist, efforts are 19 underway to assist the community 20 corrections field incorporating the 21 principles of PREA in the policy and 22 practice. And APPA is pleased to be 23 engaged in these initiatives. 24 Through a cooperative 25 agreement with the Bureau of Justice Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 293 1 assistance, APPA in partnership with 2 the International Community Corrections 3 Association and the Pretrial Justice 4 Institute is developing a handbook for 5 frontline community corrections staff 6 and supervisors on preventing and 7 responding to sexual assault. APPA is 8 also collaborating with the National 9 Institute of Corrections, the monitors, 10 and the Washington College of Law in 11 the development of the handbook and in 12 broader efforts to raise awareness 13 about PREA within the community 14 corrections field. A more 15 comprehensive description of our 16 efforts in this -- on this issue is 17 included among written testimony for 18 your review. 19 Again, on behalf of APPA, I 20 would like to extend our appreciation 21 for the opportunity to testify today. 22 Thank you very much. And I'll be happy 23 to answer any questions that you may 24 have. 25 CHAIRMAN KANEB: Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 294 1 Thank you, Ms. Abner. I 2 think it would be useful to, certainly 3 people in the audience and at least 4 speaking for this Commission, or for 5 me, if you could give some examples of 6 community corrections activities. I 7 mean, it's a -- people's not converse 8 with the correction system to one, you 9 know, whether it's their main job or 10 their academic interest. Community 11 corrections is basically two words that 12 seem to mean a broad array of 13 activities. So without going through 14 all of them, just examples of what -- 15 what sort of institutions might be 16 here. 17 MS. ABNER: 18 Sure. I think among the 19 most well-known functions are probation 20 and parole, which is certainly the 21 supervision of an offender, either as 22 an alternative to prison incarceration 23 or following one's incarceration where 24 this offender works with probation or 25 parole officer who supervises them. Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 295 1 Other examples include secure community 2 based facilities where an offender is 3 in a secured facility where he -- he or 4 she remains, but it is in the community 5 closer -- in the community in which 6 that individual resides. 7 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 8 Excuse me. Obviously, in 9 the first case the -- the clients, if 10 you will, are not confined? 11 MS. ABNER: 12 Correct. 13 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 14 But in the second case they 15 are? 16 MS. ABNER: 17 They can be. Exactly. And 18 we also heard examples this morning 19 regarding a halfway house where 20 offenders reside in a facility but have 21 privileges to leave that facility for 22 certain periods of time. Community 23 corrections also includes pretrial 24 services, so before an individual 25 goes before the court, is detained. Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 296 1 And that defendant may be in a jail 2 setting or -- or in some sort of lockup 3 setting. That is also considered 4 community corrections. So it really 5 begins from -- 6 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 7 So you do consider jails to 8 be -- 9 MS. ABNER: 10 When a defendant is under 11 pretrial service supervision, that is 12 considered community -- or part of the 13 realm of community corrections, 14 correct. 15 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 16 Even though he or she may be 17 confined in a county jail? 18 MS. ABNER: 19 Correct. 20 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 21 Good. Thank you. Are there 22 questions of Ms. Abner? 23 Yes, Commissioner Smith. 24 COMMISSIONER SMITH: 25 You know, Ms. Abner, one of Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 297 1 the things that I think the Commission 2 has, you know, sort of struggled with, 3 and that you alluded to, is -- is sort 4 of how we should address community 5 corrections. Because, of course, when 6 you're talking about the act, the act 7 is really talking about what -- or 8 seems to be talking about primarily sex 9 that occurs in custodial settings. And 10 so we appreciate you laying out all the 11 various custodial settings that 12 community corrections manages. 13 I guess one of the things 14 that was in your testimony that I 15 wanted you to expand on, and just to 16 get some sense about whether it would 17 be helpful, is getting a sense -- like 18 how do we get a sense -- how would you 19 suggest that we get a sense of the 20 prevalence of sexual violence in 21 community corrections settings when it 22 doesn't appear that you're going to be 23 a part of the BJS survey? 24 MS. ABNER: 25 That's a wonderful question. Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 298 1 And it's -- you know, I think there are 2 so many challenges in getting the sense 3 of the prevalence of these types of 4 incidents, wherever they may occur. 5 And certainly, that applies to 6 community corrections as well. You 7 know, I think that, certainly, agencies 8 are beginning -- community corrections 9 agencies are starting to look at this 10 issue a little bit more closely and -- 11 and reflecting internally about their 12 own practices within themselves. And I 13 think there probably will be some 14 analysis of thoughts about how -- how 15 much -- or to what degree this is a 16 problem within their own agencies. 17 I'm not sure if that answers 18 your question. But it's a very 19 difficult -- it -- it is -- would be a 20 very difficult task to engage an 21 estimate of the prevalence within 22 community correction just as it is 23 within correctional facilities as well, 24 particularly since community 25 corrections agencies won't be as Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 299 1 engaged in BJS efforts as -- as much as 2 some of the institutional facilities. 3 COMMISSIONER SMITH: 4 One other question is just 5 that -- I mean, in terms of 6 recordkeeping. Is it your sense that 7 there are formal recordkeeping 8 mechanisms in community corrections 9 around keeping up with incidents of 10 sexual violence, or is that, again, 11 another area where you know there's 12 a -- a little bit of a lag with what's 13 happening with sort of a well defined 14 community -- other correctional 15 settings? 16 MS. ABNER: 17 I think it really depends on 18 the agency. And again, we -- we cover 19 such a broad array of organizations and 20 agencies within the community 21 corrections realm. And I think some 22 community corrections agencies are -- 23 have already begun to -- to collect -- 24 collect data on this type of 25 information. Other agencies have Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 300 1 not -- and to some degree it depends 2 on -- you know, some agencies provide 3 strictly a probation or parole service 4 while other agencies may provide an 5 array of services ranging from 6 custodial to more of the -- the 7 supervision of an offender in the 8 communities. 9 And so to some degree, I 10 think that depends on the types of 11 programs that an agency is involved in. 12 It -- as well as other factors. But I 13 think some agencies are starting to 14 collect data on it, others probably are 15 not. 16 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 17 Other questions of 18 Ms. Abner? 19 COMMISSIONER SMITH: 20 I have a bunch more, but. 21 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 22 Why don't we do this. Why 23 don't we go on to Mr. Beauclair, and 24 then we'll see how -- 25 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 301 1 Yeah. 2 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 3 -- how it goes, okay? 4 Thank you. Thank you, 5 Ms. Abner. 6 MR. BEAUCLAIR: 7 Good afternoon. Mr. 8 Chairman, members of the Commission, 9 thank you for giving me the opportunity 10 to be here today. 11 Let me say first that the 12 National Institute of Corrections is 13 committed to helping in any way we can 14 with the efforts to making in regards 15 to sexual violence in prison and 16 community corrections. 17 My perspective comes from 30 18 years of experience, about half of that 19 in the probation, parole community 20 corrections system in a rural state 21 system. I'd like to try to define 22 community corrections a little bit as 23 well to provide a framework for our 24 discussion. 25 I see it as a function that Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 302 1 refers to a wide array of non-prison 2 sanctions imposed by a trial court or 3 state parole authority. Now, these 4 sanctions may be employed with 5 offenders at the pretrial diversion, or 6 preferred prosecution, post-conviction 7 or post-incarceration stages. 8 Community corrections programs are 9 usually runned by probation or parole 10 agencies, however, the actual authority 11 or structure under which they operate 12 comes in many different forms. 13 Probation and parole can be 14 a single state agency under the 15 umbrella of the state correction 16 system, or a separate agency of state 17 probation and state parole. 18 Oftentimes, felony and misdemeanor 19 cases are supervised by separate 20 systems. Community corrections 21 programs are also operated by the 22 judicial branch, in many cases, and by 23 county sheriffs. 24 One state that I'm familiar 25 with, you have a state corrections Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 303 1 system -- part of the community 2 corrections system is supervised by the 3 state, and part of it by individual 4 entities. And so as you can see, 5 it's -- it's really a mixture of a lot 6 of constructions. 7 Programs may be operated by 8 public agencies themselves or 9 contracted out to private vendors. In 10 addition to a wide range of probation 11 and parole supervision strategies, 12 programs may include halfway houses, 13 halfway back facilities, therapeutic 14 community treatment centers, jail work 15 release programs, gay reporting 16 centers, furloughs, hardship release, 17 community work centers, work camps, and 18 drug and mental health course. 19 Now, prison systems normally 20 have a similar government structure as 21 a state executive branch agency; 22 however, as you can see, community 23 correction supervision and services 24 have a wide variety of structures. 25 This possibly is the greatest barrier Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 304 1 to ponder when it comes to promoting 2 the systems standards in community 3 corrections' view. In many cases, 4 information systems cannot talk to each 5 other in multiple jurisdictions, and 6 different lines of authority may cross 7 and require some type of cooperation. 8 A significant challenge will 9 be the culture of each individual 10 agency. Historically, probation and 11 parole systems have managed offender 12 risk in the community by monitoring 13 compliance with court conditions and 14 controlling offender behavior by adding 15 additional sanctions if there's some 16 type of violation, or sending a person 17 back to prison or back to court. 18 Now, this approach creates 19 an enforced mentality and a perception 20 that the authority figure -- figure, 21 their only function is one of, I 22 gotcha. Now, there has been a number 23 of changes to this in the last few 24 years. It's been an increasing 25 interesting proven risk reduction Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 305 1 outcome using evidence based 2 interventions. 3 Many agencies have moved to 4 a more multidimensional approach 5 managing offender risk. They've 6 adopted strategies, such as proper risk 7 and needs assessment, case management, 8 and targeted interventions gives 9 employee motivational in reviewing 10 techniques, and building offender 11 engagement and interest in motivation 12 for positive change. These same 13 agencies are also finding that this 14 dual role of monitoring, control, and 15 intervention treatment can blur their 16 responsibilities. That makes both 17 staff and offenders vulnerable. And 18 what can really help there is, of 19 course, proper training. 20 Community corrections 21 workers general work autonomously and 22 have large caseloads, as already have 23 been alluded to. And much of their 24 work allows significant discretion and 25 is done outside normal office Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 306 1 parameters and away from supervisors 2 and peers. Once again, by the very 3 nature of their work, staff and 4 offenders can be put in difficult 5 situations. 6 In conclusion, to 7 effectively address the role of 8 community corrections in responding to 9 PREA, some important conditions should 10 be met. Reasonable caseload sizes, 11 appropriate training, ability to 12 provide proper investigations, adequate 13 supervision of staff of all levels, a 14 zero tolerance policy for sexual 15 misconduct, written policy and 16 procedure for all public and private 17 staff that have contact with offenders, 18 offender orientation handbook, a good 19 culture which promotes professionalism, 20 integrity, and proactive approach to 21 the prevention of sexual misconduct, 22 and the detention and proper sanction 23 of offender and staff sexual 24 misconduct. 25 With that, I conclude my Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 307 1 remarks. Thank you. 2 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 3 Thank you, Mr. Beauclair. 4 Are there questions of Mr. Beauclair? 5 In respect to complying with 6 PREA, and having this Commission be 7 able to halfway intelligently draw 8 standards, do you -- would you offer an 9 opinion as to whether or not situations 10 that are not custodial, that is parole 11 officer, client, halfway house, 12 residence, whether those should be 13 activities we should really address at 14 all? 15 MR. BEAUCLAIR: 16 Mr. Chairman, my opinion is 17 that -- and as I understand the law, 18 it's currently written that only the 19 24/7 detention-type facilities would 20 come under PREA. That's how I 21 understand it. 22 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 23 So the activities that -- 24 and may be the useful activities, that 25 this broad spectrum of -- of entities Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 308 1 performed really are outside of PREA, 2 as you understand it? 3 MR. BEAUCLAIR: 4 Yes. 5 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 6 All right. Thank you. 7 That's all I have for now. 8 I just think with two more 9 witnesses on this panel, we'll just 10 continue with testimony. And then with 11 time remaining, we -- we can have open 12 seating. 13 COMMISSIONER SMITH: 14 I just want to make one 15 comment, which I think is probably a 16 quandary when you're talking about 17 community corrections. I mean, 18 certainly PREA covers what we're 19 talking about in terms of custodial. 20 But I guess the question that I ask 21 of Deputy Director Beauclair, it is 22 your understanding, however, that under 23 many states' statutes, probation and 24 parole officers who are involved in 25 sexual interactions with staff would be Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 309 1 eligible for prosecution, right? 2 MR. BEAUCLAIR: 3 Of course. 4 COMMISSIONER SMITH: 5 And that they would also 6 certainly -- they would also certainly 7 be prohibited by policy in these 8 agencies? 9 MR. BEAUCLAIR: 10 Yes. 11 COMMISSIONER SMITH: 12 But it seems that there was 13 a gap when you were putting the 14 legislation together in terms of 15 covering those kinds of interactions? 16 MR. BEAUCLAIR: 17 That's correct. 18 COMMISSIONER SMITH: 19 Okay. 20 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 21 Ms. Robinson. 22 MS. ROBINSON: 23 Mr. Chairman, members of the 24 Commission. I appreciate the 25 opportunity to provide testimony today Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 310 1 reflecting the experiences of community 2 corrections for practitioners with 3 regard to PREA. 4 First and foremost, 5 community corrections practitioners 6 believe and support, by both policy and 7 practice, that any sexual conduct 8 between clients, entrusted to our care, 9 and any staff in our programs is always 10 unacceptable. Compliance with PREA is 11 a moral obligation, not just a legal 12 one. 13 The passage of PREA in 2003 14 helped corrections professionals to 15 become increasingly aware of the issue 16 of sexual assault in institutional 17 settings. There have been very few 18 efforts, until recently, to educate the 19 community corrections field about PREA 20 and study its implications in community 21 correction settings. 22 Community corrections 23 programs have challenges that are 24 unique to our settings. Our clients 25 are not under the direct supervision of Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 311 1 staff at all times. Client absences 2 from the facilities are approved for 3 verified programs, such as seeking 4 employment, strengthening family ties, 5 religious activities, educational, 6 recreational, and counseling. 7 Clients are constantly 8 monitored while in the community, so 9 program staff are aware of their 10 location. But we would be remiss if we 11 did not note that our staff and/or 12 clients have opportunities to engage 13 with one another outside of the 14 watchful eyes of staff in the facility. 15 For that reason, it is imperative. 16 There are culture, policies, and 17 practices emphasized, beyond any doubt, 18 that there is no such thing as a 19 consensual relationship between staff 20 and clients. 21 To address the need to 22 strengthen this culture and provide 23 useful tools that can be applied to a 24 variety of community corrections 25 settings, a group of practitioners is Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 312 1 working together to develop a how to 2 guide. And Carrie Abner addressed that 3 already, so I'm going to skip over a 4 lot of that. 5 I just want to say though 6 that once that guidebook is -- is 7 published, it will be electronically 8 accessible through the APPA, the ICCA, 9 and the PSRC websites. 10 Many of the best practices 11 being implemented throughout community 12 corrections, such as gender responsive, 13 classification and treatment, 14 motivational interviewing, case 15 management, all contribute to effective 16 prevention and response to sexual 17 misconduct, even though not directly 18 responding to PREA. We are working to 19 build an existing positive element and 20 best practices of our programs and 21 services. 22 On a more personal note, I'd 23 like to talk to you a little about 24 Alvis House, and it's the agency that I 25 run. I have 13 locations ranging in Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 313 1 size from 100 beds to 30 beds. We 2 believe that staff sexual misconduct is 3 one of the most serious forms of 4 employee misconduct. Alvis House does 5 not tolerate any form of discrimination 6 and/or sexual harassment towards 7 clients or staff. Violators of our 8 policies are subject to disciplinary 9 action up to and including termination 10 of employment, as well as applicable 11 civil and legal and criminal penalties. 12 Upon admission to Alvis 13 House, clients receive a packet of 14 information covering sexual abuse, 15 assault, prevention, and intervention. 16 The informational packet defines the 17 client's right to be safe from sexual 18 abuse and assault, and the client's 19 right to confidentiality and privacy. 20 It also contains information of the 21 investigative process, counseling for 22 victims of sexual assault, guaranteed 23 safety of the client, steps to avoid 24 further sexual assault, and a list of 25 who to contact if they are assaulted. Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 314 1 Alvis House requires each 2 client to sign a form stating that they 3 were issued this literature upon 4 entrance to our programs. If a client 5 feels that he had been subjected to 6 sexual harassment, he or she is 7 immediately -- is to immediately report 8 the matter to the program manager or 9 director. Clients are encouraged to 10 report concerns of this nature to 11 another level of supervision if they 12 don't feel comfortable. 13 In addition to being able to 14 refer clients to counseling services, 15 Alvis House is very fortunate to have a 16 clinical psychologist on staff who is 17 prepared to counsel a client as needed, 18 should a client be a victim of sexual 19 abuse or assault. Alvis House has a 20 comprehensive staff training program 21 that addresses the agency's sexual 22 abuse, assault, misconduct, prevention, 23 and intervention programs. All newly 24 hired employees receive training about 25 the program during the initial Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 315 1 orientation period and annually 2 thereafter. Alvis House also conducts 3 initial orientation and refresher 4 training on expected staff performance 5 and employees standards of action. 6 My testimony does not seek 7 to address the many issues surrounding 8 sexual misconduct in a community 9 corrections setting, nor does it offer 10 a definitive or comprehensive approach 11 to its prevention, investigation, and 12 resolution in such a setting. I hope 13 though that it will be of some 14 assistance to the Commission. 15 I did want to say one other 16 thing before I -- we moved on. And 17 that is, about two days after I was 18 asked to present here today, I had an 19 instance of sexual abuse in one of my 20 facility. And it was from -- a client 21 was in our residential facility, and he 22 came and he reported it -- reported it 23 to his manager of that program. What 24 was interesting about it was, when he 25 reported it, he didn't want any Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 316 1 confidentiality about it. He wanted to 2 make sure that others knew about it so 3 that they would be willing to report 4 something of -- if that would happen to 5 them. So I thought it was very 6 interesting around the timing of the 7 report. 8 It was probably the first 9 report we have received in probably 10 about three years. And he actually 11 helped the police and our agency catch 12 our employee in the act with him. The 13 other interesting thing is, I think it 14 brought to light how important it is 15 for community corrections programs to 16 really spend time on this issue. 17 Thank you. 18 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 19 Thank you, Ms. Robinson. 20 That -- that incident is -- is unusual 21 and may be instructive. You know, I'm 22 just speaking as thoughts are coming to 23 my head here, but. We spend a huge 24 amount of time, and I guess properly 25 so, on -- on confidentiality, Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 317 1 protecting the victim from the trauma 2 of exposure, because he or she may be a 3 victim of retaliation. He or she may 4 be highly embarrassed, further 5 traumatized by disclosure. 6 On the other hand, the guy 7 you're talking about was willing to 8 admittedly, in a much -- much less 9 threatening environment than a high 10 security prison, was going to take the 11 opposite tact. He was going to make 12 sure everybody knew about it, and as 13 you've concluded, cooperate with 14 authorities in, I don't know, some kind 15 of sting operation or whatever. I 16 think that's a forethought for all of 17 us here on the Commission as we think 18 about the matters of confidentiality 19 and who knows and who shouldn't know 20 and -- and again, I'm just speaking as 21 thoughts are coming in my head. 22 But, you know, sunshine and bright 23 lights are -- are very deterrent to 24 mischief in many -- many settings. So 25 thank you. Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 318 1 MS. ROBINSON: 2 You're welcome. 3 COMMISSIONER FELLNER: 4 Was it a male staff or 5 female staff? 6 MS. ROBINSON: 7 It's a female staff. If I 8 may though say one thing that I think 9 does relate to even the institution, is 10 the staff person that was hired was 11 hired from another state. I won't 12 mention the state. But they were hired 13 from another state that worked in the 14 state department of corrections. And 15 our process of hiring staff, there's 16 a -- a -- there's a lengthy background 17 investigation process. But when 18 someone leaves a state because they 19 violated the same kind of thing and 20 there's no -- they are allowed to 21 resign from their position, rather than 22 being terminated, then we'll never get 23 that information. And on paper and 24 through interview, it looks like a very 25 good staff person. This happened Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 319 1 within two weeks of employment, too. 2 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 3 That problem is one we have 4 heard about before. The serial 5 offender who flies beneath the radar, 6 yes. Thank you. 7 Ms. Broderick, please. 8 MS. BRODERICK: 9 Yes. I guess in the 10 interest of time I will try and go 11 through my testimony fast so that you 12 have an opportunity to ask us 13 questions. 14 I think one of the thing 15 that's most important is for those of 16 us in the community corrections field 17 is, does PREA actually apply? And the 18 reason I say that as the chief 19 probation officer in Maricopa County, I 20 do run a facility. It's only 50 beds. 21 It's for the seriously mentally ill 22 with occurring situations. But my 23 officers who are at pretrial are within 24 the jail. They are talking to 25 defendants all the time. We also have Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 320 1 bail bond agents that are a part of 2 that. So some of the questions that 3 really come to this Commission is, what 4 should PREA be for community 5 corrections? And the reason I say that 6 is when you look at the statistics, two 7 million individuals are in some type of 8 custody inside facilities. Five 9 million people are underneath community 10 corrections in the United States. 11 That's a lot of people. 12 You heard previous people 13 talk about our structure. We are very 14 similar to the struggles that you're 15 probably having with your jail 16 facilities. There are 30 states that 17 have probation and parole at a state 18 level. 11 of them are affiliated with 19 the Department of Corrections, and in 20 turn, because of that, they have 21 wonderful access to existing policies 22 to inspector generals. 23 And then there are those of 24 us, the 20 states, and I have to point 25 out that some of the most popular Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 321 1 states are designed this way, Texas, 2 California, New York, Ohio -- and I'm 3 sure I left someone out. -- Illinois. 4 I could throw in Pennsylvania or my own 5 state. Are probation entities that are 6 runned at a county level. Some of us 7 report to mayor, some of us report to 8 city council and/or board of 9 supervisors. And myself, I report to a 10 presiding judge. That system of 11 structure means it's very difficult to 12 have the ability to have consistent 13 policies. 14 A lot of us do have policies 15 around staff sexual misconduct. And, 16 unfortunately, in the seven years I've 17 been, I can relate ten stories where 18 there are people who we have on who are 19 financial collectors, who are actually 20 treatment counselors, or who, 21 unfortunately, are probational officer 22 who have abused clients and have 23 sexually assaulted them. And I can 24 relay stories of how we actually have 25 to go through and try and deal with Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 322 1 that. 2 But I think for the 3 Commission, I would ask that we look 4 beyond custodial. We have five million 5 people, and in my own jurisdiction 6 there are 32,000 people under parole 7 and probation supervision. It's larger 8 than the Department of Corrections just 9 in the county itself. 10 So somehow, some type of 11 standards -- and I applaud APPA, ICCA, 12 and Pretrial Resource Center for 13 attempting to take this on with the 14 National Institute of Corrections to 15 try and bring PREA to light. 16 Unfortunately, a lot of my 17 colleagues only see this in terms of 18 detention centers and residential. And 19 yet, when you have officers going in 20 and out of jails and prisons -- and I 21 think the Broward County example is 22 probably legal visits where you have 23 probation officers and parole officers 24 interviewing clients and clients come 25 forward and, basically, tell us about Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 323 1 the sexual assault, wanting it to be 2 relayed. So I'm thinking that that 3 might have been actually what had 4 occurred at Broward. And that could 5 also be defense attorneys and/or 6 psychiatrist or psychologist that are 7 going into the jail interviewing the 8 inmates. So you have a vast array of 9 individuals that are outside the 10 facilities going inside the facilities. 11 In my jurisdiction, I am 12 urban -- and you mentioned Phoenix. 13 We're also very, very rural. And I 14 have three different tribal entities 15 with sovereign issues that I'm dealing 16 with. And some of the issues around, 17 basically, taking jurisdiction that 18 have to work with tribes is another 19 interesting arena of work to this 20 particular Commission. 21 I really thank you for the 22 opportunity to at least present some of 23 the issues around community 24 corrections. And there's a whole array 25 of things. And my written testimony Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 324 1 goes through a couple of those types of 2 things, but I do think maybe face four. 3 We need to look at the larger arena of 4 where most people wind up in terms of 5 being adjudicated under probation 6 and/or parole and/or any of the 7 diversion programs that are out there. 8 Thank you very much. 9 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 10 Thank you, Ms. Broderick. 11 Are there questions of any 12 of the panel? 13 COMMISSIONER AIKEN: 14 I have an open-ended 15 question for advice and balance. 16 There are people that are 17 leaving detention centers, leaving 18 prisons after various periods of 19 incarceration that enter your universe. 20 And -- and obviously, we know that when 21 an inmate or a person comes with 22 specific complaints that require 23 criminal prosecution, or at least 24 criminal inquiry, we know about that. 25 And we know about the confidentiality Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 325 1 aspect also, which we will discuss 2 later in the day. And I do appreciate 3 your input regarding that. But let me 4 throw something out that I -- I ask for 5 your advice and guidance on it. 6 What about a third category? 7 That third category meaning operational 8 assessment, specifically for those 9 people that have been in a confinement 10 setting prior to coming to you, and 11 asking general questions as it relates 12 to the operation, such as -- and I'll 13 give you a few examples. 14 What are the blind spots? 15 Have you been intimidated by another 16 inmate or inmates or staff members, and 17 you're not giving any names or 18 whatever? What are some of the staff 19 cultural behaviors that give you the -- 20 the impression, at least, that -- that 21 sexual intimidation and aggression 22 is -- is tolerated? And I'm talking 23 about verbal, coercion, intimidation, 24 et cetera. 25 I'm not trying to create a Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 326 1 new reality, but it just seems like, to 2 me, perception is 99 percent of reality 3 in a confinement setting, 4 unfortunately. So people look at 5 certain behaviors of people, whether 6 you're going to aggressively stop this 7 particular behavior or you're just 8 turning your back, for example, of 9 assessing an individual when that 10 individual comes to your setting of 11 what happened, and in an operation 12 context in the particular correctional 13 setting. Is that beneficial, do you 14 think? What's your opinion on it. And 15 I'll open it to anyone. 16 MR. BEAUCLAIR: 17 I certainly think it's 18 beneficial. I think one of the 19 problems, however, are that what we're 20 really talking about is culture. And 21 that's just one way to -- to maybe be 22 able to deal with cultural issues. I 23 certainly think it's worth dealing. 24 But I think, really, to change the 25 system, you have to look at the whole Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 327 1 culture not just those inmates that are 2 coming in from a correctional 3 environment. 4 COMMISSIONER AIKEN: 5 Certainly I would agree with 6 you on that, the culture. 7 And the next question, I 8 guess, is, once that information is 9 gathered, where does it go, and what's 10 the product of that particular thing? 11 What's your opinion? Where would we go 12 with it if indeed that is a viable 13 option? 14 MR. BEAUCLAIR: 15 Well, I think first the 16 structure of the system would have to 17 change. You don't have the people -- 18 in some cases they may be there, but in 19 very few cases you have the staff that 20 are capable of -- of doing those kinds 21 of interviews without a lot of 22 training. You know, all of the 23 resources, or most of the resources, 24 are devoted to supervision and 25 treatment. There are some very Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 328 1 progressive systems that are doing risk 2 and needs assessments with fairly 3 sophisticated tools. But then there 4 are all those other systems that have 5 no staff to be able to do anything like 6 that. 7 COMMISSIONER AIKEN: 8 And on the same token, I've 9 heard this mentioned several times, 10 even today. We have people that don't 11 trust us. And would assessment of 12 where you just came from and your 13 perception of vulnerability -- and I 14 want to get your input as it relates to 15 that vulnerability, so that I can pass 16 it on to a entity. -- is that of any 17 worth in doing, at least professional 18 trust? 19 MS. BRODERICK: 20 I think you can find out 21 with lots of probation agencies where 22 they don't have large caseloads. A 23 female or a male will get very 24 comfortable with their officer, and may 25 actually disclose later on in their Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 329 1 supervision that, in fact, while they 2 were incarcerated something did happen 3 to them. Then it becomes a question 4 that you set up for us. Where do we go 5 with that information? What does that 6 client actually want? All the 7 questions you're asking kind of before 8 us surround consenting -- basically, 9 moving forward. 10 And are the prosecutors 11 ready to actually take on some of the 12 things? Because even with the larger 13 organizations like mine do not have an 14 inspector general's office. I would 15 have to go to my county attorney and, 16 who in my case a district attorney, and 17 basically use their inspectors and 18 investigators to proceed in terms of 19 that piece. 20 And then probably more 21 importantly after the disclosure, do we 22 have the funds to really deal with the 23 secondary trauma that's occurred to 24 that individual? And what can we 25 actually do for that person in the Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 330 1 community? Although we're in the 2 community, I'd like to say that we're 3 all adequately funded. But the reality 4 is, we're probably the poorest of all 5 the justice organizations in terms of 6 actually providing access to services 7 for people who are struggling. So that 8 one becomes a very critical piece too. 9 But all the things that you 10 heard this morning play out when an 11 individual -- one of our client comes 12 forward, and actually there have been 13 some things that has actually occurred. 14 And then we have to try and deal with 15 how do we engage our local law 16 enforcement and/or the Department of 17 Corrections and inform them that this 18 has actually occurred, and does that 19 client want to proceed, and will 20 someone actually take it seriously. 21 And we become the third party, that you 22 heard mentioned, more times than not 23 that you'll wind up with a community 24 agent and/or treatment provider and/or 25 psychiatrist or psychologist that's Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 331 1 actually servicing the individual once 2 they're released. 3 COMMISSIONER AIKEN: 4 And I promise, Mr. Chairman, 5 this is the last question. 6 And I understand that aspect 7 of it. But let me give another 8 example, maybe. 9 You were interviewing a new 10 client that just got out of detention, 11 and has been in detention for the last 12 35, 40 days. And you ask a simple 13 question, how was it when you were 14 incarcerated? And the response is, I 15 did not take a shower for three weeks. 16 And the reason why I didn't take a 17 shower for three weeks is because every 18 one says stay out of the shower area in 19 cell block three on the second floor or 20 cell block three on the rock. And the 21 reason why is because there's a blind 22 spot, and everybody knows that I can't 23 fight anybody because I'm not a member 24 of a gang. This is the first time I've 25 been locked up. I'm next door to Mad Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 332 1 Dog, and Bush Ax lives across the hall 2 from me. And I know to stay out of 3 that shower. 4 That may be some valuable 5 information that maybe some assaults 6 have taken place, even though this 7 individual was not the victim of a 8 sexual assault. Is that worthwhile to 9 exchange that type of quote, unquote, 10 operational information? 11 MS. BRODERICK: 12 Absolutely. I would think 13 that any of my colleagues that are 14 running either a jail or a prison would 15 like to know that type of information 16 so that they could make sure the blind 17 spot, if they didn't already know about 18 it, or where the action is actually 19 occurring, so that they can proceed 20 with the ability to tighten up security 21 in those particular arenas. 22 The reality is, how does 23 that information get up to the 24 appropriate party so that it can get to 25 the appropriate department of Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 333 1 corrections and/or to the appropriate 2 level at a jail like mine, which is 3 very, very large? And those are the 4 types of things that I think a national 5 standard the Commission itself could 6 assist us with, even if it's suggesting 7 protocols to our colleagues who are 8 running jails and prisons that parole 9 agents and probation agents and 10 whatever title they may have that are 11 working in the community, might have 12 valuable information post-release. 13 And the same with pretrial. 14 COMMISSIONER AIKEN: 15 And another example. We 16 talk about resource and needing more 17 money. Well, what about the inmate 18 that says, you know, I stayed in my 19 cell the whole time I was there. I 20 didn't go to rec. I didn't got to the 21 TV room. Why? Because the officer -- 22 yeah, we have officers assigned to the 23 cell block, but they stood by the gate 24 all the time. They never made rounds. 25 I mean, do we pay them more Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 334 1 money to make a round? I mean -- you 2 know, is that valuable information? 3 MS. BRODERICK: 4 Yes. 5 COMMISSIONER AIKEN: 6 Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 7 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 8 Thank you, Jim. Let me just 9 comment here, 'cause we have a moment 10 or so. 11 I would ask staff to note 12 this interchange between Commissioner 13 Aiken and -- and Ms. Broderick. Not so 14 much that it's Ms. Broderick, although 15 he chose to engage her. He himself is 16 a great -- information on this whole 17 subject. 18 COMMISSIONER AIKEN: 19 You promised not to pick on 20 me today, remember? 21 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 22 You know my word is no good. 23 Seriously, this whole matter 24 of -- of gathering and then using 25 information, that could be, you know, Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 335 1 very, very well employed by people back 2 up the line in the facilities is 3 something, frankly, that never occurred 4 to me. And I -- you know, what we can 5 mandate and what we can urge on people 6 is -- it may be two different things. 7 But I ask that we make note of that as 8 we develop standards in our report. 9 Thank you. 10 Yes, Commissioner Smith. 11 COMMISSIONER SMITH: 12 Just in terms of trying to 13 recognize some consistent themes here. 14 It sounds like when we're talking about 15 community corrections, that it sounds 16 like sort of a place in corrections 17 that is often overlooked for very 18 different reasons. So in putting PREA 19 together, we overlooked the big part of 20 people who are under supervision and 21 community corrections by only focusing, 22 or at least seems, implicitly on 23 custodial settings. 24 And so, for example, when 25 BJS has decided to do its data Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 336 1 collection, it sort of overlooked 2 community corrections again by not 3 looking at residential settings, and 4 only coming to probation and parole in 5 order to interview people who are out 6 of custody about what happened in 7 custody, and not collect the data that 8 they might even give about incidents of 9 abuse which occurred in probation and 10 parole. 11 And Ms. Broderick also, in 12 terms of listening to you, one of the 13 things I know that I'm aware of, at 14 least in Arizona and sort of going to, 15 again, another place where probation 16 and parole is left out, is often state 17 laws that I talked to Mr. Beauclair 18 about that prohibit sexual abuse of 19 people in custody, right, often exclude 20 probation and parole? 21 MS. BRODERICK: 22 That is correct. 23 COMMISSIONER SMITH: 24 Now, I know that it used to 25 be the situation in Arizona. Has that Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 337 1 changed? 2 MS. BRODERICK: 3 It has not changed. And 4 there are many states like that, that 5 the oversight does not basically apply 6 to probation or parole or to bail 7 agents or to bond or anyone else that 8 may have the ability to, unfortunately, 9 commit horrible acts. 10 COMMISSIONER SMITH: 11 So if I'm a correctional 12 officer, and this goes to 13 Ms. Robinson's question, I might -- if 14 I sexually assault or have a 15 relationship with somebody in custody, 16 if I'm security staff, or what we 17 traditionally think of as people who 18 handle -- who are -- who are guards, 19 right? -- I might get criminally 20 prosecuted. But what you're saying is 21 that there's still state law, at least 22 in Arizona, where you would not be able 23 to get a criminal conviction against a 24 probation or parole officer unless it 25 was sexual assault? Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 338 1 MS. BRODERICK: 2 Correct. 3 COMMISSIONER SMITH: 4 And as I understand it, in 5 Arizona, up until very recently, if 6 there was any issue of consent, then 7 the inmate was also prosecuted; is that 8 correct. 9 MS. BRODERICK: 10 That is correct. 11 COMMISSIONER SMITH: 12 Okay. 13 MS. BRODERICK: 14 We're a unique state. 15 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 16 I missed what you said. 17 MS. BRODERICK: 18 We're a unique state. 19 COMMISSIONER SMITH: 20 And I understand that that's 21 changed, right? 22 MS. BRODERICK: 23 Yes. It has recently 24 changed. 25 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 339 1 But before that, Arizona, 2 Nevada, and Delaware were those three 3 states where if you were an inmate and 4 had sex with someone in custody, and it 5 seem to be consensual, that that 6 wouldn't be prosecuted, right? 7 MS. BRODERICK: 8 Correct. 9 COMMISSIONER SMITH: 10 Okay. 11 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 12 Other questions? I would 13 also ask then staff to note an apparent 14 hole that may exist here for parole 15 officers, or others in that role, in a 16 non-custodial setting. If I understand 17 correctly, they're using the authority 18 that they have over their charge to 19 extract sexual favors is not a 20 prosecutable act in many states. Okay. 21 I will leave it at that. 22 COMMISSIONER SMITH: 23 John -- I'm sorry. I forgot 24 one last thing. 25 One of the things I just Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 340 1 want to note, which we probably don't 2 have the time to explore, is that we 3 didn't have a good colloquy among all 4 of you about -- you talk a lot about 5 staff on inmate stuff. But I didn't 6 hear a lot in terms of talking about 7 inmate on inmate or offender on 8 offender interactions, and what you're 9 doing in the community corrections 10 setting to address that. 11 And I don't know if we have 12 time to even get into that, John. 13 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 14 Well, we have a few minutes. 15 So if -- if there's something that any 16 of you would like to answer in response 17 to Commissioner Smith's inquiry. 18 MS. ROBINSON: 19 Commissioner, I'd like to 20 address that only because my situation 21 is very unique from Barbara's and 22 Carrie's in dealing with probation and 23 parole. Because my -- my facilities 24 and the facilities of the International 25 Community Corrections Association are Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 341 1 residential. We're nonprofit in most 2 cases. We have community people that 3 sit on our boards. Our -- we have 4 prosecutors. We have judges. And so a 5 lot of our things -- I know I'm 6 addressing what the commissioner over 7 here said. But the other thing I 8 wanted to say is that we very -- just 9 don't see a lot of offender on offender 10 mistreatment. 11 I have -- we have one 12 program, which is offenders with mental 13 retardation, and you'll see that in 14 that program. And I'm not sure if it's 15 because we're doing some research on 16 that now, whether that's because of 17 they're processing in a way that they 18 have grown environmentally retarded, 19 we always say. But because of the 20 structure of the facilities, there are 21 usually two or three people in a room 22 and not just one-on-one, and there's 23 not individual rooms either. And 24 there's also cameras in the facility. 25 So I think that that's why we don't see Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 342 1 as much offender on offender. 2 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 3 Thank you. 4 MS. BRODERICK: 5 If I can just address this 6 fast. 7 If my colleagues are here 8 from Texas, where they have very large 9 institutions that are runned by 10 probation upwards from 500 to 600 men 11 in a facility, you would have that same 12 problem. But these are dormitory types 13 of facilities. They tend to be 45 to 14 90 days with the ability to extend, if 15 the judge so wants it. Again, 16 primarily based on the risk assessment 17 that we have, we're talking about a 18 different type of clientele. It's not 19 someone who needs the higher level risk 20 that a prison or a jail would bring. 21 So the likelihood of inmate on inmate 22 or client on client is a little 23 diminished. It does occur. 24 We're in the same situation. 25 We're in a very small facility. It is Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 343 1 private rooms with private showers, and 2 we have cameras throughout. Could it 3 occur? Yes. Has it? No. I should 4 knock on wood. I'm jinxing myself. 5 But I think you really need to go to 6 some of the larger, Ohio and Texas, 7 where they're running very large 8 correctional facilities. 9 In the community, again, the 10 nature of -- and I was just in San 11 Antonio and Houston. And my colleagues 12 would say, these are not lockdowns. 13 You can walk away. And we basically 14 say, go ahead. Walk away. We'll catch 15 you. We'll bring you in front of the 16 judge and, ultimately, then you'll wind 17 up with the Texas Department of 18 Corrections. 19 So it's a little different 20 on how we run the facilities. And I 21 think part of that is the assessment -- 22 we're going to basically get the low 23 risk offended in those facilities. 24 MS. ABNER: 25 And if I may just add. The Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 344 1 handbook that we're developing, ACCA in 2 partnership with ICCA and Pretrial 3 Justice Institute, does address 4 offender on offender assault 5 particularly as it -- in regards to 6 pretrial detention as well as general 7 tips for community corrections officers 8 supervising -- who may be supervising 9 both victims of institutional based 10 sexual assault as well as their 11 perpetrators. 12 So when you have both 13 victims and perpetrators on your same 14 community supervision caseload, there 15 are certainly issues that you need to 16 keep in mind there. 17 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 18 Thank you, all of you. 19 You're helping us build our house here. 20 And we'll take a brief unscheduled 21 break and reconvene at 3:45 for our 22 next panel. 23 (Off the record.) 24 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 25 Ladies and gentlemen, it Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 345 1 appears to me that our four witnesses 2 are seated, so I would ask that all of 3 you also be seated. 4 I now ask the -- all of the 5 witnesses to stand and be sworn in. 6 (Four witnesses sworn in.) 7 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 8 Thank you all. 9 As you all know, we can read 10 the agenda. This is entitled -- this 11 panel is entitled, Best Practices and 12 Emerging Trends: The Community 13 Corrections Field's Response to the 14 Prison Elimination Act. 15 Since the enactment of the 16 Act, many community corrections 17 professionals have worked to identify, 18 and so on. We've heard a lot of that 19 in the last panel, so I will go 20 directly to indication -- to an 21 introduction, I'm sorry, of our panels. 22 The first is Anadora Moss. 23 Andy Moss is president of the Moss 24 Group and NIC PREA/Moss Group Project 25 Director, and a valuable resource for Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 346 1 this Commission. 2 Antonio Booker, Director, 3 Adult Residential Services, Johnson 4 County Department of Corrections (New 5 Century, Kansas). 6 Jacqueline Kotkin -- Kotkin, 7 I'm sorry. Field Service Executive, 8 Probation and Parole, Vermont 9 Department of Corrections (Waterbury, 10 Vermont.) 11 And Eugenie Powers, 12 Director, Probation and Parole, 13 Louisiana Department of Public Safety 14 and Corrections in Baton Rouge. 15 I thank you all. I'll start 16 with Ms. Moss. 17 MS. MOSS: 18 Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 19 The later it is in the day it goes, the 20 shorter testimony it might need to be, 21 but I look forward to being with you 22 this afternoon. I am going to read 23 parts of my testimony because I'm so 24 full. And some of you know my history. 25 I think my books is going to be from Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 347 1 scandal to national policy, but I'm 2 honored to have the opportunity to 3 speak with you today. 4 For much of my career I've 5 been involved in addressing the issues 6 of sexual violence and abuse in 7 correctional settings. First in my 8 role in Georgia -- Georgia Department 9 of Corrections where in the early 90s I 10 was asked by the Commission to be the 11 Commissioner's representative on-site 12 at the women's prison in Georgia. My 13 role is to oversee the department's 14 response of allegations of widespread 15 sexual assaults of female prisoners by 16 correctional staff, which emerged 17 during the Cason v. Seckinger lawsuit. 18 The investigation of these 19 allegations culminated in the 20 indictment of 17 staff members, the 21 relocation of women's prison, and a 22 commitment to massive reform. During 23 the lawsuit, issues are raised on how 24 court orders policies and lessons 25 learned would impact the area of Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 348 1 community corrections, specifically 2 women under community supervision. 3 This was the beginning of the theme, 4 I've heard repeatedly in my work, 5 related to sexual violence and abuse, 6 what about the community corrections? 7 It was 1992. 8 Since my early experience in 9 Georgia, I've had the opportunity as a 10 program manager for the National 11 Institute of Corrections, and now as a 12 consultant to remain involved in the 13 emerging practice and national dialogue 14 as it pertains to that question, what 15 about community corrections. 16 By now experience should 17 tell us sexual violence and abuse is 18 not a prison and jail problem only, 19 just as it is not a women's issue only. 20 With any population under 21 the law, I believe the first step is 22 simply naming the issue, that is 23 acknowledging the sexual violence and 24 abuse exist within that particular 25 correctional setting. Naming -- naming Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 349 1 in prisons and jails has not been easy; 2 however, in community corrections, 3 naming sexual violence as a 4 correctional management priority 5 requiring a systemic set of strategies 6 is more difficult. It has been well 7 over a decade since major lawsuits in 8 women's prison emerged to name the 9 issue as a correctional management 10 priority. 11 Human Rights Watch play a 12 key role in naming staff sexual 13 misconduct and male rape as national 14 issues of concern in its landmark 15 reports. Stop Prisoner Rape 16 established in 1980 by male survivors 17 of prisoner rape has a long history of 18 naming sexual violence in prisons and 19 jails. But they face community with 20 key and recognizing the importance of 21 the issue, and they were key to the 22 legislation. Advocates like Bob Dumond 23 (phonetic) and T.J. Parsell has written 24 and spoken powerfully about the traumas 25 facing the nation in prisons. And in Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 350 1 my own experience, many correction 2 professionals have admirably responded 3 to the naming of sexual violence and 4 abuse in prisons and jails. 5 In community corrections, 6 similar naming of sexual violence and 7 abuse has not been as apparent, perhaps 8 partly because it is challenging to 9 neat -- to neatly approach the 10 community corrections field as a 11 collective group. As you heard today, 12 community corrections representative 13 diversity of settings, and there is 14 very little language within the law to 15 explicitly address community 16 corrections. 17 The very name of the act has 18 been a major barrier to gaining 19 response from community corrections 20 practitioners. In fact, with PREA, the 21 questions just won't go away, what 22 about community corrections? Even so, 23 there has been considerable response by 24 leaders within the community 25 corrections field not only to PREA, but Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 351 1 the area of staff sexual misconduct 2 predating PREA. 3 Professional organizations 4 have stepped up with resolutions 5 prohibiting staff sexual misconduct and 6 community corrections. And you're 7 hearing from individuals today who are 8 some of the champions of the work in 9 community corrections. 10 In preparing for today, I 11 reviewed the last eight years of work 12 done by the National Institute of 13 Corrections in the community 14 corrections area, so there is more good 15 news. Because in 2000, the National 16 Institution of Corrections acknowledged 17 the importance of developing strategies 18 to assist the community corrections 19 field in the area of staff sexual 20 misconduct. Since that time, resources 21 for community corrections have included 22 technical assistance, training, and 23 information dissemination. These 24 efforts have continued under PREA. 25 Through the Moss Group's Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 352 1 work, which began in 2003, we continue 2 to work closely with Commissioner Smith 3 under the NIC initiative that she is 4 project manager for at American 5 University Washington College of Law. 6 We continue to work to build resources 7 to support best practices and promising 8 practices specific to community 9 corrections and working with 10 professional organizations. Susan 11 McCampbell's earlier work through NIC 12 also should be noted for its 13 contribution. I provided an overview 14 of NIC's activities to the Commission 15 in my written testimony. 16 Through these strategies 17 over the last eight years, I believe a 18 foundation for building best practices 19 under PREA is solid. New York is 20 underway. I think one of the -- there 21 is, in addition to the work that Carrie 22 Abner talked about with BJS and grants, 23 I know that Commissioner Smith is also 24 working on a handbook for community 25 corrections. And we are funded to Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 353 1 provide a relearning program that will 2 be available to the field, specifically 3 to all staff's role as first 4 responders. So there is emerging work 5 as well. 6 Now, there are gaps. And 7 after doing many technical assistance 8 out in the field, it's easy to 9 recognize some of these gaps. And we 10 provided a list of those to you as 11 well. But most notably, we've noticed 12 that there is a lot of confusion about 13 safe communities part of the act. Many 14 folks think -- think that that is 15 directly related to sex offenders. And 16 we have done the safe communities part 17 of the act. If we are addressing the 18 management of sexual offenders, 19 ignoring the concerns or not, 20 recognizing the concern of -- of really 21 trying to treat people who have been 22 victimized and also to create no more 23 victims. 24 I want to speak a little bit 25 more specifically to best practice. Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 354 1 And I think for the Commission to note 2 best practice, I added one as I was 3 sitting here today. 4 We have several PREA 5 coordinators here from across the 6 country who has made it a point to come 7 to listen to the commission hearing. 8 There may be more, but I'm very aware 9 that Idaho is here, Oregon is here, 10 Louisiana is here, and the director of 11 Women's Services from New Mexico is 12 here. So there are many systems that 13 are really working hard on PREA in 14 community corrections. 15 Particularly important is 16 the leadership. It's important to have 17 leadership in any area of correction. 18 But specifically because the law is so 19 ambivalent, or the feeling about the 20 law in community corrections create a 21 lot of ambivalence. It's very 22 important to have leaders such as 23 Barbara Broderick, who is speaking up 24 and really trying to specifically 25 address not only PREA but the Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 355 1 responsibilities to eliminate sexual 2 violence. 3 We talked about policies and 4 importance of clarity with policies. 5 In our work, we provide a policy -- a 6 policy guide to address PREA. We're 7 working with many jurisdictions around 8 the country. I think though that the 9 federal standards will be a tremendous 10 help as we continue to refine policy, 11 because people still want to understand 12 what the parameters are of PREA. We 13 feel like the best practice is to 14 really employ multiple strategies 15 systemically, because eliminating 16 sexual violence and fulfilling the 17 intent of PREA cannot be done by a 18 single person, a single training 19 program that can't be mandated from the 20 top down with no further involvement 21 from the leadership. 22 NIC's systemic approach to 23 employ multiple strategies is an anchor 24 in a well-known model. The components 25 of the systemic approach are well Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 356 1 documented and articulated in the 2 position they have produced by the 3 workers of statewide directors of 4 probation and parole attached to my 5 written testimony. 6 In partnering with groups, 7 such as faith-based organizations, 8 sexual assault experts, counseling 9 professionals, and law enforcement, the 10 community corrections universe must 11 wrap these partnerships around mission 12 of reentry and, therefore, the concerns 13 for all clients and offenders suffering 14 from victimization. And I think that 15 looking at a systemic approach and 16 thinking of community corrections, that 17 collaboration is even more important. 18 Sexual violence is 19 destructive, disruptive, and counter to 20 evidence based practices rallied in 21 reduction of risk and rescinding 22 principles of the core of the community 23 corrections. 24 In closing, the message I 25 would hope to leave with you today is Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 357 1 this: Prisoner sexual violence 2 significantly impacts community 3 corrections. There are experts, tools 4 for the field, federal resources, and 5 many proactive leaders in community 6 corrections. There's an absence of 7 research prevalence in community -- 8 community settings has not been 9 addressed, and there remains much work 10 to be done. 11 In my opinion, your role is 12 pivotal in raising awareness and 13 expectations for best practices and 14 moving the field for community 15 corrections forward in addressing 16 prison sexual violence. The standards, 17 the commitment of professional 18 organizations, and the role of federal 19 agencies must all find common ground 20 and commitment to an effort with 21 community correction officials are the 22 opportunities to present, to 23 acknowledged and address sexual 24 violence in corrections under the 25 Prison Rape Elimination Act will be Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 358 1 considerably -- considerably 2 diminished. 3 Thank you. I look forward 4 to the discussion. 5 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 6 Thank you, Ms. Moss. You 7 are testifying or have testified in 8 respect to community corrections. But 9 with a number of references, if I may 10 say, upstream into confinement 11 facilities, 'cause it is a continuum. 12 MS. MOSS: 13 Yes. 14 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 15 So if I can go all the way 16 to take this matter a little further 17 back downstream to a non-confinement 18 community corrections situation, let's 19 say a halfway house or parole. This 20 strikes me -- and you and Brenda Smith 21 and a lot of other people, I guess, 22 know this. But the opportunity for 23 inmate on inmate problems is probably 24 minimal, but we -- we seem to have 25 somewhat of a hole in our potential for Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 359 1 enforcement against really bad behavior 2 by parole supervisors or, I guess as we 3 heard this morning in this rather lurid 4 and spectacular case in New Hampshire, 5 someone in charge at least during 6 certain hours of the day of a -- of a 7 halfway house. 8 Would you please, and you're 9 willing to help us out, make sure you 10 focus us on whatever we can do, whether 11 it's standards, recommendations, or a 12 combination thereof of plugging some of 13 these holes. I realize that's a very 14 narrow aspect of what you talked about, 15 but I ask you to do that. 16 MS. MOSS: 17 Well, I think that it's -- 18 there's sort of two issues here in 19 terms of what does PREA cover, which 20 we've heard a lot of discussion today 21 in terms of community corrections, and 22 then the issue of the outcome. Are we 23 trying to eliminate sexual violence in 24 community -- in correctional settings? 25 And in the particular case in New Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 360 1 Hampshire, I know that our group worked 2 there before the incident, so I'm 3 pretty familiar with that -- with that 4 case. 5 And I think that -- the 6 reason I wanted to focus on naming the 7 issue in my testimony is that I think 8 it's -- it's still very difficult for 9 people to -- for community corrections' 10 personnel, not all, but many to 11 recognize how far out sexual violence 12 and sexual misconduct really does go. 13 And so I think that -- to me, I think 14 clearly I'm comfortable that the 15 setting you're talking about is 16 residential, you know, is covered under 17 the law. 18 I appreciate what Barbara 19 Broderick was saying in terms of we 20 need help in terms of after it moves 21 out of that area, and particularly 22 reporting mechanisms. 23 I'm not sure I'm responding 24 to your question, but I think that 25 The -- the gray area that would be Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 361 1 really helpful for the Commission to 2 address is -- is how are we going to 3 work with probation and parole 4 officers. And remember, we're talking 5 about not only adult but juvenile in 6 knowing how to respond to the reporting 7 aspect of it. 8 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 9 I won't take more time 10 because really what my -- what the 11 question is a request. And that's 12 exactly what I was requesting, that you 13 work with our staff to make sure we 14 focus on that particular area of what 15 I'm calling a way downstream part of 16 community corrections. 17 MS. MOSS: 18 I think that's a really 19 critical area. 20 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 21 Thank you. 22 Other questions for 23 Ms. Moss? 24 COMMISSIONER FELLNER: 25 I don't know if it's a Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 362 1 question, Andy, for you now or maybe 2 for all the panelist. But I was 3 thinking of how in the last session we 4 were talking about how PREA applied to 5 community corrections. And I think it 6 will be helpful to this Commission if 7 we also have the benefit of your 8 insights into what does custodial 9 sexual abuse, the impact it has on 10 reentry. So this is slightly different 11 than whether PREA applies to you. But 12 you have -- you know, Congress has 13 spoken to a levy to address the 14 concerns of the public that this is a 15 serious matter of individuals in 16 communities. And I was thinking, of 17 course, that probation -- or parole, 18 especially post-incarceration, you 19 probably have a lot of wisdom about 20 that because you work directly with 21 individuals. 22 So whether it's a question 23 to -- and whether it's in this session 24 or maybe our staff talked to you but we 25 should mind your experience with some Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 363 1 of that information for our report if 2 not for our standards as well. I just 3 wanted to get that on the table. 4 MS. MOSS: 5 I would like to respond 6 quickly to that. And I know that my 7 colleagues have a lot of experience 8 with that as well. 9 But to me, it's -- it's 10 really so superficial to think that we 11 can be successful in reentry if we're 12 working with people who have been 13 traumatized and we're not addressing 14 the trauma, and we're not even 15 understanding that they are 16 traumatized. And so I think that we -- 17 we have so much interest in reentry 18 now, and that's an area that we're 19 trying to build capacity. But if we 20 don't recognize the trauma -- and I've 21 had the opportunity this week to be 22 with the juvenile system here, the 23 Office of Abuse Development. And I 24 have walked through their facilities 25 this week and spoken to their probation Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 364 1 and parole officers. And when you walk 2 through and also speak to those young 3 men, particularly, and recognize their 4 histories -- I've been in this work a 5 long time as you have, Commissioner. 6 But whenever I think we're not making 7 progress or that it's discouraging 8 walking through and talking to those 9 young men and knowing their histories, 10 we have to start addressing the trauma 11 before we can expect successful 12 reentry. 13 COMMISSIONER FELLNER: 14 Thank you. 15 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 16 Other questions of Ms. Moss? 17 Thank you. 18 Mr. Booker. 19 MR. BOOKER: 20 Thank you, Commissioner. 21 First, I'd like to thank the Commission 22 for allowing me to come and speak 23 today. I feel real honored the fact 24 that, considered my department, I was 25 one of the department that have some Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 365 1 initiative with the PREA initiative. 2 For one thing, I have to say is that 3 our introduction, the staff sexual 4 misconduct, did not come from the PREA 5 initiative. I basically would like to 6 say that probably came from our policy 7 of just doing what we felt was right. 8 when we look at headlines 9 from my department of the same 10 probation officer who have preyed on 11 probationers sentenced to prison, I 12 think that shows that our department 13 took the initiative of doing what was 14 right when we found that one of our own 15 was preying upon our clients that we're 16 supposed to be serving. 17 Just to kind of give you a 18 little history of how we became part of 19 the PREA initiative but -- not only of 20 this initiative, but the fact that one 21 of our own -- our own clients came to 22 us to say that one of our probation 23 officers had -- had sexual misconduct 24 with her. And this was after she had 25 been placed in incarceration, come back Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 366 1 to community corrections to be 2 supervised again, and felt comfortable 3 enough to tell one of our own staff 4 that one of our staff had had sexual 5 improprieties with her. That just goes 6 to show that with our department, we 7 have to build that trust with our 8 clients for them to be able to report 9 that. One thing that I see as far as 10 community corrections is involved, is 11 that we are seeing a change in our 12 population of who we're serving. And 13 those individuals are coming from 14 incarcerated settings. 15 To kind of give you an 16 overview of that complexity of what 17 we're talking about earlier about 18 community corrections programs. 19 Our department not only has community 20 corrections program for adults, but we 21 also serve juveniles as well. Our 22 program operates a 70-bed juvenile 23 detention center that serves as a last 24 resort for juveniles which would other 25 be placed -- which with other places Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 367 1 would provide another structure for 2 juveniles. In addition to detention, 3 we provide community field services for 4 juveniles offenders. Our intensive 5 supervision program provides probation 6 services for higher risk offenders as 7 ordered by the court. We have a case 8 management unit that provides 9 supervision and case management 10 services for juveniles. And most of 11 these juveniles are currently under the 12 custody of our Kansas Juvenile Justice 13 Authority, and many of theme have 14 recently been released from Kansas 15 Juvenile Justice Authority facilities. 16 Our adult division operates 17 a community-based residential center, 18 which I'm director of, that provides a 19 structure environment for both male and 20 female adult offenders when the court 21 orders this as a condition of 22 probation. Our residential center has 23 a capacity of 449 beds, which includes 24 a 40-bed therapeutic community 25 treatment facility which is a six-month Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 368 1 substance abuse treatment facility for 2 those with high risk drug offense. 3 Also, we have a work release program 4 that provides the ability to serve 5 custody time while continuing to work 6 in the community. Our residential 7 facility provides in-house services, 8 including substance abuse treatment, 9 mental health counseling, and 10 educational programs. And all these 11 services are geared toward providing 12 offenders many tools to successfully 13 complete their supervision. 14 But as I -- through the 15 years that I have been with this 16 department and my 20 years of being in 17 community corrections, as I said, I see 18 this change in population to where now 19 we're also serving individuals that 20 have not only had an opportunity to be 21 on probation, but now have in 22 incarcerated settings and then given 23 opportunity to transition through our 24 programs. So I see us definitely being 25 a first-line personnel to be able to Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 369 1 identify some of those things that we 2 have addressed here, and some of the 3 testimony I've heard. 4 Kind of in closing, because 5 I know I want to try to cut my opening 6 remark short 'cause I am very 7 interested in hearing some of the 8 questions you may have of us. One of 9 the things that I can say is that part 10 of our initiative could not have been 11 taken advantage of if it wasn't for the 12 things that NIC has put in place. 13 One thing that we've done 14 because of the situation that we had in 15 our county, and not because of the PREA 16 initiative, was we want to do what's 17 right. We could have stopped at that 18 first individual that came to us and 19 said, I had a problem with one of your 20 officers, but we didn't stop there. We 21 interviewed every client that that 22 officer had under his supervision to 23 see if there were any more allegations 24 or any more incidents that we need to 25 address. Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 370 1 One thing that made this 2 very complex is that we had a satellite 3 office in another state so that 4 individuals that were victimized were 5 victimized at another state. So we had 6 the partnership with another state to 7 make sure that that investigation was 8 done thoroughly. We need to make sure 9 that we partnership with that other 10 state, because the State of Kansas at 11 that time did not have community 12 corrections staff as part of their 13 statute to convict them or to have 14 prosecution. 15 I'll be happy to say that 16 because of some of the initiatives that 17 we took, the State of Kansas now has 18 included community corrections and 19 court services personnel in those 20 statutes to where if those things 21 happen, as far as staff sexual 22 misconduct, they can be prosecuted by 23 the court of law. 24 With our situation, the 25 State of Missouri did prosecute the Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 371 1 individual. And a lot of that came 2 about -- of our -- of us initiating 3 that conversation with those 4 individuals, and then piggybacking on 5 that was to go out and find the 6 training that we needed to make sure we 7 were covering all of our basis, and 8 then also partnership with individuals 9 like the center -- Center of Innovative 10 Public Policy, Susan McCampbell. We had 11 training come in for preventing and 12 addressing staff sexual misconduct. I 13 am now a trainer for NIC on that. I'm 14 then also training with Brenda Smith 15 and her team on investigating staff 16 sexual misconduct has given us 17 definitely a lot of tools to put in 18 place that we've incorporated into our 19 department. 20 So with that, I am very 21 anxious to hear whatever questions or 22 maybe guidance I could possibly give to 23 my testimony. Thank you. 24 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 25 Thank you, Mr. Booker. Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 372 1 Questions from Commissioner 2 Smith. 3 COMMISSIONER SMITH: 4 One of the things that it 5 sounds like, in listening to both this 6 panel and the last panel, that if you 7 sort of think about this issue, and I 8 think that Commissioner Kaneb talked 9 about it, is a continuum. And you 10 talked about it eloquently sort of 11 people moving up and down that line and 12 coming back and forth. 13 One of the things that I'm 14 quite concerned about, and we talked 15 about it in last panel, is around 16 reporting, okay? So I can imagine a 17 situation where -- I guess what I'm 18 trying to figure out is, I can imagine 19 a situation where somebody reports 20 something to you, right, this person 21 who came back. And then you get that 22 information. And after you get it, it 23 sounds like you reported it up to the 24 prison. Well -- no, in this situation 25 it was involving you. But I guess I'm Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 373 1 concerned about where that information 2 goes, and if there -- if you have 3 policies in place or protocols for what 4 happens, for example, when you get that 5 information and it's not in your 6 agency. Where do those reports go? 7 You know, what does the prison do with 8 it in terms of their full data 9 collection? Is all of that information 10 about what -- what happened? Does that 11 go into what they report? I mean, do 12 you have any information about that? 13 Because that's one of the things that I 14 keep struggling about, the reporting in 15 the community corrections role. 16 MR. BOOKER: 17 That's the gap. That's 18 where the gap lies. I think that we 19 know that we have a moral obligation. 20 And then as officers of the court, we 21 have an obligation to report 22 misconduct, be if it's staff with 23 offenders or offenders on offenders. I 24 think that gap, so to speak, is -- 25 because now we are becoming those first Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 374 1 responders. We need to be training our 2 staff on who to report that to. 3 They're very clear on who to report to 4 if it's a staff on client situation. 5 COMMISSIONER SMITH: 6 In your agency? 7 MR. BOOKER: 8 In our agency. But I 9 believe in the State of Kansas, 10 especially when they took the 11 initiative to include us in their 12 statute. That's a big step for us. 13 They know that if we have a situation, 14 that we will report it. I think it 15 even goes to the fact that a lot of the 16 folks within the community corrections 17 agencies, there are a lot of different 18 entities of who you report to and those 19 types of things. 20 The big thing with the State 21 of Kansas is that they are big 22 supporters of community corrections in 23 the State of Kansas. And because of 24 that support, we have a good 25 relationship when we had NIC come in Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 375 1 and do the training on addressing 2 preventing staff sexual misconduct. We 3 had the director of community 4 corrections from the Department of 5 Kansas come down and sit in on that 6 training. We had individuals from 7 Lansing Penitentiary come in and sit 8 down in training. So they are 9 knowledgeable of not only PREA but the 10 fact that -- what community corrections 11 are doing as well. 12 So I think one of the things 13 that we can do is piggyback on those 14 education opportunities that we've been 15 given, and take that even farther to 16 say that we are getting those 17 individuals out. And if we're 18 trained -- training our staff on how to 19 ask questions, how to ask about their 20 experiences that they had while they 21 were incarcerated, we can quickly close 22 that gap. 23 COMMISSIONER SMITH: 24 And so what you're saying is 25 that if you got a complaint in -- under Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 376 1 probation, you feel confident that, at 2 least in Kansas, you could report that 3 information back to the prison and 4 something would happen with it? 5 MR. BOOKER: 6 Yes, ma'am. 7 COMMISSIONER SMITH: 8 Or penitentiary? 9 MR. BOOKER: 10 Yes, ma'am. 11 COMMISSIONER SMITH: 12 Okay. 13 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 14 Any other questions from 15 our -- from our commissioners? 16 Commissioner Fellner. 17 COMMISSIONER FELLNER: 18 In your written testimony 19 you address juvenile field services. 20 And I wonder if you could say a little 21 more because that's something we 22 haven't talked about thus far, which is 23 children within a community corrections 24 framework. And you have this line, 25 it's lost -- PREA has lost it's Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 377 1 translation and purpose when it comes 2 to the juvenile justice system. 3 That was a very powerful 4 sentence and I wonder if you could, you 5 know, pack it a bit for us. 6 MR. BOOKER: 7 Well, the unique situation 8 we have with our county is that, as a 9 community corrections program, we did 10 offer community corrections program to 11 juveniles. I guess because we -- we 12 did that job so well, our county asked 13 us to be in charge of our juvenile 14 detention center, which is a different 15 animal when it comes to corrections and 16 community corrections. 17 When I made that statement 18 in my testimony, a number of juvenile 19 detention center directors that I 20 talked to only believe that the PREA 21 initiative dealt with the detention 22 setting. 23 In our situation, because we 24 offer so many services in the field, I 25 think we have to make a better effort Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 378 1 in -- in forming juvenile services that 2 part of PREA is the fact that not only 3 does it occur in -- it could occur in 4 juvenile detention settings, but 5 because of the time we have -- we have 6 with the clients in a juvenile 7 detention supervision program is just 8 as prevalent as it is with an adult. 9 I think because sometimes we 10 have a lot of safeguards for the 11 protection of children in juveniles 12 that we feel we don't have obligation 13 if there's a report. We have entities 14 that we can go to and they take the 15 ball and run with it, to deal with 16 those investigations. I think we need 17 to have a more parallel investigation, 18 because we understand our business. We 19 understand the unique situations that 20 we have in a -- a criminal justice 21 situation to where I think that 22 translation is lost because PREA has 23 that emphasis on detention when it 24 comes to juveniles as oppose to the 25 field service. Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 379 1 COMMISSIONER FELLNER: 2 Thank you. 3 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 4 Other questions of Mr. 5 Booker? 6 Ms. Kotkin, please. 7 MS. KOTKIN: 8 Thank you for the 9 opportunity to address the Commission. 10 My testimony today is based on my 11 experience as a probation and parole 12 officer, staff trainer, regional 13 director, and most recently, state 14 director of probation and parole. I'm 15 from Vermont. 16 Vermont is a small 17 integrated state, which means that we 18 have everything from low risk probation 19 to jails. We don't really have jails. 20 We call them jails. Prison, parole, 21 furlough, intermediate sanctions. It's 22 one stop shopping. So my lens is 23 through a system that at least should 24 be able to communicate internally. We 25 should be able to be elaborately in Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 380 1 which we can develop communication 2 patterns. And I was very interested in 3 listening to the panel earlier talking 4 about the different ways probation and 5 parole is set up nationally. 6 I'm from one of those 30 7 states that has had a statewide 8 probation and parole system. I'm one 9 of those states that is part of a 10 statewide department of corrections 11 under the executive branch. 12 In addition, I am a founding 13 member of our Vermont's PREA 14 implementation team. And that's -- 15 that's an important factor. I was 16 asked to be on the team because PREA 17 has implications for probation and 18 parole in Vermont. In addition, I'm -- 19 as a member of NIC's sponsored 20 executive for statewide probation and 21 parole network, I work with colleagues 22 from around the country to discuss the 23 implications of PREA on community 24 corrections. 25 Community corrections Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 381 1 practitioners schooled in the explicit 2 requirements of PREA are exploring its 3 less direct implications on what I call 4 nonresidential corrections programs. 5 We as a group of statewide directors of 6 probation and parole read PREA 7 carefully and saw our 24/7 facilities, 8 whether halfway houses to release 9 centers, clearly fit into the explicit 10 aspect of the law. What we were 11 looking for is what our role was in the 12 nonresidential arena. 13 At the May 2006 meeting of 14 Executive of Statewide Probation and 15 Parole Network, state directors 16 examined how probation and parole could 17 support PREA. And I was interested in 18 what Antonio Booker said earlier. Our 19 perspective was, let's do what we feel 20 is right as oppose to what the law was 21 telling us what we had to do. And our 22 discussion was surround, even if PREA 23 didn't exist, what are the practices we 24 want to put into place to assure that 25 offenders are safe? We look at PREA as Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 382 1 an opportunity as oppose to a set of 2 requirements, recognizing the persons 3 on parole and probation may have been 4 previously detained or may face future 5 incarceration. State directors may be 6 unanimous requested. NIC can be in a 7 work group to draft a model policy 8 direction. 9 This work resulted in a 10 written document setting a desired 11 direction for community corrections. 12 The document emphasize the use of a 13 systemic approach to correctional 14 management in support of PREA. This 15 language that I'm going to be using may 16 sound very familiar to some of you. 17 It's the same language we look at when 18 we talk about staff sexual misconduct 19 and keeping offenders safe within the 20 confines of prison and jail settings. 21 So with the report that we wrote, 22 identify the need for leadership, 23 commitment to zero tolerance of 24 offender exploitation, policy protocols 25 and legal requirements that are clear, Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 383 1 consistent, and support offender and 2 state staff safety, ongoing review of 3 operational practices, comprehensive 4 staff, volunteer, contractor, and 5 offender training, objective and 6 efficient investigator processes, 7 supports to victims, addressing agency 8 culture, mapping allegation reporting 9 past, and assurances that all 10 allegations are investigated. Again, 11 these are practices that we talk about 12 when we look at the implications for 13 24/7 facilities. 14 The document that was 15 written emphasize prevention 16 opportunities that exist for community 17 corrections. And some of the panelist 18 mentioned this in the last panel, 19 training staff and assessing offender 20 vulnerability and/or risk prior to 21 incarceration or re-incarceration. 22 Even without sophisticated assessment 23 instruments, we know that certain 24 offenders are more vulnerable to be 25 victimized, the young, the small, those Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 384 1 who are incarcerated for the first 2 time. We know that the first 24 hours 3 provides greater vulnerability to 4 offenders. 5 We talked about, as a 6 prevention activity, educating 7 offenders on probation and parole 8 regarding their right to remain safe 9 and right to report abuse. We also 10 encourage formal linkages between 11 community corrections and facility 12 staff, recognizing that in a unified 13 system that's a lot easier. We also 14 highlighted the challenge that 15 community corrections and residential 16 corrections have in establishing 17 appropriate MOU's and other 18 communication linkages so that the 19 information goes two ways. 20 So on a national level, 21 state directors of probation and parole 22 continue to explore the implications of 23 PREA linking them to a multi-strategy 24 approach. 25 I'm from a very small state. Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 385 1 I think you'd be surprised at how few 2 inmates we have in Vermont. 3 Nonetheless, Vermont takes its PREA 4 initiative very seriously. And on a 5 state level, it too is attempting to 6 incorporate a systemic approach. The 7 Vermont Department of Corrections are 8 recipients to BJA grants in both 2004 9 and 2007 in developing a continuum 10 strategies. And the strategies that 11 I'm going to describe are first being 12 explored within our correctional 13 facilities. The training that I'm 14 describing is training for facility 15 staff, but phase two of our grant 16 activities will be to train probation 17 and parole officers. PREA doesn't 18 require that we do that, but our 19 commitment to keeping offenders safe -- 20 safer communities mean that we have to 21 react in the community. 22 So we're focusing on 23 training of PREA service training on 24 the impact of sexual exploitation, 25 staff sexual misconduct, addressing the Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 386 1 code of silence, and what we call 2 courageous leadership where we 3 encourage all staff to stand up and 4 take a leadership role and keeping 5 offenders safe. 6 We also have a curriculum 7 for facility first responders, which 8 addresses the role of facility nurses 9 and medical staff. Our intention is to 10 develop first responder capacities in 11 our probation and parole offices so 12 that the staff, when upon receiving 13 complaints, know how to respond and how 14 to refer offenders for services. 15 We developed more objective 16 credible investigations, and have a 17 separate investigations unit that is 18 not part of the department, as well as 19 a 24-hour confidential offender 20 hotline. We also have a training 21 curriculum now that includes the 22 components to demystify the 23 investigation process when our own 24 staff are charged with staff sexual 25 misconduct. All of these initiatives Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 387 1 also apply to probation and parole 2 staff. 3 As part of our PREA 4 initiative, we finally passed 5 legislation. We were the last state in 6 the country to criminalize staff sexual 7 misconduct. Thanks to the force of 8 federal law, we were able to convince 9 our state legislature that this was 10 important. 11 My belief is that Vermont 12 considers itself above the notion that 13 staff would behave in such a way. It's 14 a liberal state that it values doing 15 the right thing. But the -- the 16 federal standards that may be looking 17 at staff sexual misconduct, I think are 18 very powerful. And our staff sexual 19 misconduct law applies to probation and 20 parole as well, as long as our officers 21 are acting in a supervisory role. 22 We're beginning to look at 23 staff culture again starting in two of 24 our facilities and in our central 25 office. And we received a technical Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 388 1 assistance grant from NIC to conduct 2 formal staff cultural assessment 3 establishing a baseline and identifying 4 where staff want the culture to be. 5 Again, with the ability to train 6 trainers in this initiative, our next 7 role will be to look at the 8 implications for probation and parole 9 staff. 10 Strategies during our 11 staff -- second grant period include 12 training plan for probation and parole 13 staff, and we'll address their role in 14 responding, reporting, and preventing 15 sexual exploitation of offenders. It 16 will highlight Vermont's commitment to 17 zero tolerance, emphasize strength, 18 base supportive case planning activity, 19 which I think are keys to open up the 20 communications with offenders who have 21 previously been victimized, and it will 22 support statute and policy. 23 Community corrections has a 24 role in keeping inmates safe. I am 25 committed to an approach that includes Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 389 1 an understanding and development of 2 law, policy, training, reporting, 3 investigation, victim sensitivity, and 4 communication agreements with 5 residential correction settings and 6 probation and parole. 7 Thank you. 8 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 9 Thank you, Ms. Kotkin. 10 Before I ask other commissioners, may I 11 ask you in your small homogeneous state 12 with your very integrated system. Is 13 this 24-hour hotline, in fact, a 14 telephone, an Internet device, what is 15 it? 16 MS. KOTKIN: 17 It's a telephone. And it 18 goes to a separate investigations unit 19 that is outside the department. It's 20 been in place a couple of years now. 21 Our early experience with it is we got 22 probably eight out of ten calls were 23 prank calls in the midst of testing the 24 system. But every -- every complaint 25 is looked at on a prima facie basis and Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 390 1 may result in full investigation. 2 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 3 If I were an inmate looking 4 for the hotline, where would I find the 5 phone? 6 MS. KOTKIN: 7 You'd find it in our 8 correctional facilities. 9 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 10 Let's say I'm an inmate, so 11 where in the facility would I look for 12 this phone? 13 MS. KOTKIN: 14 We have phones where you can 15 call lawyers, for instance, and -- and 16 the phones are situated in places where 17 access is available. 18 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 19 And where I might speak 20 with -- not -- no fear of being 21 overheard? 22 MS. KOTKIN: 23 Absolutely. 24 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 25 Well, thank you. Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 391 1 Other questions? 2 COMMISSIONER SMITH: 3 Ms. Kotkin, when you talk 4 about your hotline, you're not 5 really -- are you talking about a 6 dedicated phone, or are you really 7 talking about a number? 8 MS. KOTKIN: 9 We have a number to call. 10 COMMISSIONER SMITH: 11 Right. So on any regular 12 phone, you could pick it up and you 13 could be calling anyone and no one 14 would know who you were calling? 15 MS. KOTKIN: 16 Right. But there are 17 special areas where people can go where 18 they can call attorney or others. And 19 those separate areas are where people 20 go to call. 21 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 22 Is it a toll-free call? 23 MS. KOTKIN: 24 Yes, it is. 25 COMMISSIONER SMITH: Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 392 1 One other -- just question, 2 because -- I mean you mentioned it so I 3 think it's fair game. 4 MS. KOTKIN: 5 Uh-oh. 6 COMMISSIONER SMITH: 7 You talk about Vermont being 8 the last state to enact legislation. 9 Can you talk a little bit -- because I 10 think that we all have in front of us 11 maps that include other states. And 12 actually, Louisiana happens to be one 13 of those where probation and parole 14 officers are not excluded explicitly in 15 the law. I mean, can you talk a little 16 bit -- because as I understood it, you 17 went back to the legislature many 18 times -- 19 MS. KOTKIN: 20 That's right. 21 COMMISSIONER SMITH: 22 -- to try to get this to 23 happen. Can you talk about what some 24 of the, I guess, roadblocks or barriers 25 we're including probation and parole? Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 393 1 'Cause I think that that's certainly 2 relevant to what's going on in terms of 3 the -- in terms of sort of the 4 relationship between community 5 corrections and understanding sexual 6 violence. 7 MS. KOTKIN: 8 Right. We went through a 9 ten-year process to try to get some 10 form of legislation. We worked 11 collaboratively with the commission -- 12 the Governor's Commission on Women as 13 well as other advocacy groups. Our 14 unit -- our Corrections Bargaining Unit 15 felt that false report would be a major 16 weapon that inmates could use. And 17 because of that, and because we really 18 didn't identify -- we had examples, but 19 we didn't have the kinds of cases that 20 New Hampshire has had, for instance. 21 So year after year, we would bring this 22 legislation forward. And year after 23 year we couldn't reach any kind of 24 deliberation, so Vermont was, I think, 25 was quiet for a very long time. Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 394 1 We felt very committed to 2 having community corrections included. 3 And at one point, several years ago, we 4 did reach some kind of agreement that 5 perhaps institution should be included. 6 One of our real advantages is with the 7 existence of a PREA coordinator, who 8 could spend a considerable amount of 9 time as one of her prime objective 10 after she -- she was hired. She worked 11 in the legislature. She collected 12 data. She -- we received a lot of 13 assistance from NIC. And we had 14 examples that we gave her of staff 15 sexual misconduct that had occurred in 16 the community. 17 My belief, and I may be 18 wrong, is the force of the federal law 19 brought many of our legislators to an 20 agreement that we needed to pass 21 legislation. We had hope that the law 22 that we pass would include all staff 23 facility and community. There was a 24 compromise. And the compromise was 25 that it include all staff inside the Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 395 1 facilities and community corrections 2 staff that have a direct supervisory 3 role with the offenders in the 4 community. My hope is that -- 5 COMMISSIONER SMITH: 6 So what doesn't it -- what 7 is the gap? What doesn't it cover? 8 MS. KOTKIN: 9 The gap might be that, I'm 10 your probation officer and there's 11 another probation officer in the next 12 office who has a sexual relationship 13 with someone in my caseload. We would 14 have to make an argument that there was 15 some kind of supervisory relationship 16 as oppose to within the confines -- 17 confines of an institution. Any 18 correctional officer, any case worker, 19 according to our law, who has such 20 relationship with an offender would be 21 covered, even if they weren't working 22 in the unit that person was in. 23 COMMISSIONER SMITH: 24 Thank you. 25 CHAIRMAN KANEB: Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 396 1 Other questions of 2 Ms. Kotkin? 3 Yes, Commissioner Fellner. 4 COMMISSIONER FELLNER: 5 How do you find it -- as we 6 know, oftentimes inmates don't want to 7 report sexual abuse until they're 8 leaving prison because of the fear of 9 retaliation, either by other staff or 10 of inmates. I mean, there's all these 11 reasons. And they might reveal it to 12 parole after they leave. How -- what 13 does Vermont experience then when 14 parole agents, or probation, get 15 information about abuse that happened 16 while the person was confined? Is it 17 looking when you pass it along, either 18 investigation -- is action taken, or 19 does it seem to disappear into some, 20 you know, that happened two years ago 21 and we have enough on our hands on our 22 plate now without dealing with two 23 years ago. How does that actually work 24 out? 25 MS. KOTKIN: Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 397 1 I'll give you an example. 2 And we have not done the training that 3 I would like to do yet. That is going 4 to be forthcoming over the next year. 5 I received a telephone call 6 a couple of month ago from one of the 7 managers from our probation offices, 8 and she had one of her staff with her. 9 And he reported to me that someone in 10 his caseload had revealed that he had 11 been sexually assaulted by an inmate 12 when he had been incarcerated. 13 And I said, what did you do? 14 And he said, well, 15 immediately I called our victim 16 services specialist to sit down with 17 him. And she met with him, provided 18 some services, and then made some 19 referrals. 20 And I said, what else did 21 you do? 22 I called the investigations 23 unit -- that's located in our umbrella 24 agency outside the department -- and 25 told them that I had heard this. And Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 398 1 they asked me to put something in 2 writing. 3 I said, did you do anything 4 else? 5 Uh-huh. I called the 6 facility superintendent to let them 7 know this was forthcoming. 8 And I thought, gee, and we 9 haven't even done the training yet. 10 Now, granted, we're a small system. 11 And this particular event occurred in 12 an office located maybe a mile from the 13 correctional facility where everyone 14 knows each other and where it's easy to 15 report. I can't say that that happens 16 every time. It's an unknown 17 hypothesis. You don't know what you 18 don't know. But I think in our system 19 we are able to because of the 20 continuity. And the fact that 21 offenders really are -- it's a 22 permeable membrane where they go back 23 and forth. We have a greater 24 likelihood, I will never say it always 25 happens, to have those kinds of issues Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 399 1 reported within our own system because 2 we are a unified system. 3 COMMISSIONER FELLNER: 4 Actually, I was assuming the 5 reporting maybe -- and actually first 6 say that's terrific that the reporting 7 is happening. I was actually more 8 curious about what is done with the 9 report. Does the superintendent take 10 some kind of action? Do you have any 11 sense of -- 12 MS. KOTKIN: 13 With our system now, any 14 what we call PREA complaints, go to 15 this investigations unit. And if it 16 looks like it is a violation of 17 statute, then those investigations 18 staff work with local law enforcement. 19 We have to make sure that we don't step 20 on other investigations. But they are 21 investigated, both criminally and 22 administratively. 23 And that first call -- and I 24 was interested because he called the 25 investigations unit before calling the Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 400 1 superintendent. And the call to the 2 superintendent was more of an FYI. 3 There's now going to be an 4 investigation of someone within your 5 facility. 6 So again, I can't say -- I 7 can't identify what I don't know about. 8 But our experience is that having that 9 investigations unit separate from us -- 10 and everyone knows all PREA related 11 complaints go there. -- and we don't 12 have to pre-investigate. Our staff 13 simply has to report. 14 COMMISSIONER FELLNER: 15 Thank you. 16 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 17 Thank you, Ms. Kotkin. 18 Ms. Powers, please. 19 MS. POWERS: 20 Good afternoon. I want to 21 thank the Commission to come speak 22 today. One good thing about going last 23 is that every one has pretty much said 24 everything almost that there is to say 25 about the subject. But there are a few Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 401 1 points that I would like to make, and 2 particularly talk about what we're 3 doing in Louisiana in regards to PREA. 4 I think originally 5 PREA, the act dealt with issue of 6 sexual violence in prison. And I think 7 after all the testimony that's said 8 previous and all that things that we've 9 heard, it's obvious that it does impact 10 community corrections. And I was part 11 of the group that worked with 12 Ms. Kotkin and Ms. Moss and the other 13 leaders in community corrections that 14 worked on those issues on that paper 15 that they referred to. And I think 16 that the details about some of the 17 recommendations and suggestion and 18 things that we came up with are well 19 documented in all of our reports here. 20 I would just like to say 21 that we really -- when they kept saying 22 by doing the right thing, we sat down 23 and looked at, okay, community 24 corrections is not particularly 25 mentioned, or it doesn't say Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 402 1 specifically what we should do, but 2 what should we be doing? I mean, what 3 should we be doing here? And then we 4 started looking at all the different 5 issues and said, well, okay. There's a 6 reporting requirement. Do we have to 7 report? What happens if one of our 8 officer gets the report? What do we do 9 with that? And one question led to 10 another, which led to the group and led 11 to us coming together, at least on 12 consensus of issues, and looking at 13 this systemic approach to try to decide 14 what kind of response community 15 corrections should have to PREA. 16 They have mentioned several 17 of those issues that we came up with, 18 the building blocks of the systemic 19 approach, including policy, strong 20 leadership, and training. And during 21 the time that group was working on this 22 particular project, we also -- we in 23 Louisiana were working on our PREA 24 grant. 25 We received PREA grant -- Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 403 1 two PREA grants a couple of years ago. 2 And while we started working on one, 3 unfortunately, we had the situation 4 with our storm, so we got a little bit 5 off track and had to kind of get back 6 on track with that. But I was able to 7 take the knowledge that our group was 8 working on and bring it back to what 9 our objectives and goals were in the 10 PREA grant. 11 The first PREA grant mainly 12 refers to prisons, or had a lot to do 13 with prisons, but we -- probation and 14 parole. We were able to get some 15 officers certified to be investigators 16 and trained to be investigators, and we 17 were also able to get some officers to 18 be certified polygraphist, polygraph 19 examiners. So we were able to do that 20 out of our PREA grant. We are very 21 fortunate because we are one of the 22 unified states. We supervise probation 23 and parole adults, and we are also part 24 of the Department of Public Safety and 25 Corrections. So we have an excellent Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 404 1 working relationship with our 2 institutions. 3 Our secretary, Richard Stalder is 4 very instrumental, I think, at the 5 beginning with PREA and talking about 6 safeguarding communities. So he was 7 very familiar with that and was able to 8 bring that information back to us, and 9 where we should go with this when we 10 started implementing our grants. 11 Some of the things that 12 we're looking at regarding our policy 13 is that we need to look at all the 14 elements within the policy. What would 15 officers do if they were told about a 16 complaint? How would they handle that? 17 What would we do as first responders? 18 Who would we report that to? What 19 reporting elements did we have? Some 20 of these things we're still working on. 21 We've been able to train our staff on 22 some of these. It's been gone a while, 23 but we had to sit down and really look 24 at our policy and determine, ask all 25 these questions and try to look at Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 405 1 every scenario and see what situations 2 our staff may be faced with. 3 We currently have probation 4 and parole officers are supervisors, 5 who do investigations. But after 6 looking at what other states do and 7 what best practices are, our whole 8 department is rethinking that issue and 9 may look at having a separate 10 investigative unit to do those types of 11 investigations. So we've looked at 12 what are we doing, and we are trying to 13 decide if this is the right thing to 14 do. Should we change this? I mean, 15 what is the best way to go with this. 16 We -- it's our policy, our 17 protocol in our department that if 18 there is allegation of staff sexual 19 misconduct, we refer this, even if 20 the -- the staff person resigns, we 21 still have a policy that we refer to 22 the local prosecutor. And have a 23 decision -- they can take that 24 information and decide if they want to 25 pursue prosecution or not. We want to Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 406 1 send a very clear message that this 2 is -- this is not acceptable behavior 3 on any level. And that is -- that is 4 one way to do that. So just simply 5 resigning from your position as the 6 result of investigation is not -- it's 7 not necessarily -- it's not going to 8 end there, that particular 9 investigation. 10 What we're doing in the 11 second phase of the PREA grant is 12 trying to focus on safeguarding the 13 communities. If offenders are allowed 14 to remain in the community, then 15 hopefully they will not be exposed to 16 prison, and their chance to be -- their 17 chance to be assaulted in prison would 18 be reduced. If they receive effective 19 evidence based programming and services 20 in the community, then this will help 21 prepare them to be better citizens. 22 So in our grant we have 23 three case managers that are assigned 24 to three of our large district offices 25 that are going to work very closely Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 407 1 with the institutions. The 2 institutions are going to use screening 3 tools to determine if an offender is a 4 high risk sexual predator or perhaps is 5 a high risk to be a victim, and is 6 going to come up with case plans for 7 the offenders so that they'll get a 8 seamless transition into the community. 9 One of my colleagues that 10 testified previously was talking about 11 the resources. And in community 12 corrections they are very, very thin. 13 So we have to put our attention and our 14 focus on those offenders that pose the 15 greatest risk to the community. So 16 we're going to have these -- these 17 offenders identified, these victims 18 identified, then we will have the 19 seamless transition to our officers who 20 then will supervise these cases in the 21 community. And there will be a whole 22 array of services, depending on what 23 that person needs in the community so 24 that we can try to get them the 25 services that they need. If they were Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 408 1 a victim, do they need counseling? 2 We're going to address all those 3 issues. And our case manager is going 4 to coordinate all those efforts. 5 This is part of reentry, 6 which we've been working on for the 7 past few years. But we're able to take 8 PREA and take these high risk cases 9 that are high risk. We will be able to 10 put our attention to those cases. 11 We're also working to try to 12 revaluate. We have evaluators that 13 will -- researchers that will come and 14 evaluate our program to see how this is 15 going to work. Training is another key 16 issue that we're -- that we're doing. 17 We recognize that we have to train our 18 staff in so many things. We've also 19 had a policy in training them in staff 20 inappropriate conduct with offenders. 21 But there's so many issues there that 22 you really -- that we didn't think 23 about that we really had to sit down 24 and come up with a policy and talk 25 about all the things that our staff Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 409 1 needs to know as far as inappropriate 2 conduct. 3 And our last probation and 4 parole officer post-academy -- officer 5 post-certified -- peace officer 6 certified. We took the NIC model 7 curriculum. And we are starting to 8 train our officers in that particular 9 curriculum in staff sexual misconduct, 10 and addressing all the areas that we've 11 talked about that are in the written 12 document. The areas in training that I 13 think that -- that we think to be 14 covered. 15 The other thing that we're 16 trying to do is, we also -- we're 17 trying to educate the offenders on 18 misconduct, inmate on inmate, or staff 19 sexual misconduct. We have posters in 20 our offices that talk about, you know, 21 assaults and report it. And what we 22 want to do is try to come up with some 23 other ways to -- to get this 24 information out to offenders. Do we do 25 it during intake? Do we develop some Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 410 1 brochures as part of the evaluation in 2 the prison when they come out to -- on 3 supervision? Do we do some evaluation 4 there? So that is some of our goals. 5 I mean, we haven't completely figured 6 out everything that we're going to do 7 with the rest of our PREA grant, but we 8 have a lot of goals that we're trying 9 to get too. And all of that is to try 10 to make our communities a safe -- is to 11 make our communities a safer place. 12 There are many ways that 13 PREA is and will continue to impact 14 communities through community 15 corrections. Probation and parole 16 staff have an opportunity to be part of 17 this ever evolving process that will 18 contribute to the reduction of sexual 19 abuse of offenders and, thus, making 20 communities safer by helping offenders 21 becoming more productive citizens. 22 So I thank you for the 23 opportunity to come speak today, and 24 welcome any questions that you may 25 have. Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 411 1 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 2 Well, thank you, Ms. Powers. 3 You refer to your 4 consideration of whether you should 5 have an in-house investigative 6 operation or a separate, I guess 7 in-house also, but dedicated reporting 8 line investigative of operation. 9 You're speaking of your part of 10 Louisiana corrections systems, meaning 11 parole, community corrections, or are 12 you speaking of the whole system 13 including -- you know, penitentiary are 14 considering having a separate -- go 15 ahead. 16 MS. POWERS: 17 Because we are part of the 18 Department of Public Safety and 19 Corrections, we would just be part of 20 whatever that decision is made. It 21 will be handled -- we're just an agency 22 within corrections, so we would be 23 able -- whatever they decided. 24 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 25 So when you say we, I Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 412 1 consider -- you mean the whole -- 2 MS. POWERS: 3 Correct. 4 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 5 -- system considers it? 6 MS. POWERS: 7 Correct. Yes, sir. 8 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 9 That's interesting. All 10 right. Thank you. 11 Questions of Ms. Powers? 12 COMMISSIONER SMITH: 13 I have a general question. 14 One of the things that -- when I heard 15 Ms. Powers talking, and that I think I 16 forgot to talk about this whole thing 17 around the applicability of these state 18 laws of probation and parole. Often 19 corrections agencies have been out 20 there sort of beating the drum saying, 21 we need this kind of coverage. We need 22 these kinds of -- of penalties. And I 23 think that I want to be clear that even 24 in the absence of these kinds of state 25 laws that typically have higher Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 413 1 penalties, that there are other kinds 2 of laws that agencies have been using 3 to try to get at this. 4 Now, often they don't have 5 the same type of -- there's no sex 6 offender registry for them, there are 7 much lighter penalties, but there are 8 some others that I think that people 9 use in the absence of having state 10 laws. And if there are others that you 11 use when you're not able to use those, 12 I'd be interested in hearing about 13 those. 14 MS. POWERS: 15 There are. We can use 16 mouthpieces in the office. There's 17 sexual -- the statute regarding sexual 18 conduct. I mean, one of our goals 19 is -- we are not explicitly included. 20 We're implicitly included. And we have 21 had officers that have been convicted 22 of inappropriate conduct with 23 offenders, unfortunately. 24 COMMISSIONER SMITH: 25 Ms. Kotkin, what kind of -- Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 414 1 I mean, what did you use in terms of 2 prosecutions when -- 3 MS. KOTKIN: 4 Prior to having a law, we 5 were only able to prosecute if a local 6 prosecutor saw that that -- the 7 behavior fits the definition in the 8 type -- the criminal code. And what we 9 would get every once in a while is a 10 very egregious situation where a staff 11 person -- one staff person was 12 convicted of sexual assault because it 13 was physically coerced sex within a 14 correctional facility. And he was 15 charged and convicted and incarcerated 16 for many years. 17 We had another situation 18 that was nominally consensual where I 19 had to talk -- at that point in time I 20 was responsible for several 21 correctional facilities. Where we had 22 a shift supervisor tell a young inmate, 23 you can do easy time or hard time. 24 And the inmate then said, well, I'd 25 rather do easy time and -- and engaged Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 415 1 in sexual relations with him for those 2 kinds of benefits. When he finally 3 told us, we went to the prosecutor who 4 said he consented. We said, there is 5 no such thing as consent, recognizing 6 we had no other statute except what was 7 on the books in the criminal code. 8 The prosecutor was able somehow to 9 engage in, I don't know if it was 10 threat or coercion, some kind of plea 11 agreement to a, what we call prohibited 12 act, which is a misdemeanor charge 13 against the employee. The employee was 14 fired anyway. And then that employee 15 was put on probation and we had to 16 supervise him. But I think that was 17 more a poker game than anything else. 18 So this law became very 19 important to us. Because the whole 20 issue of consent, prosecutors in our 21 state were very willing to prosecute if 22 they -- if there was non-consent, 23 if there was coercion, in accordance 24 with the law that existed then. So 25 this new law is very important to us. Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 416 1 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 2 Thank you, Ms. Kotkin. 3 Commissioner Fellner. 4 COMMISSIONER FELLNER: 5 Yeah. I had a question for 6 Ms. Powers. On your safeguarding of 7 community, you're using some of the 8 money that you received for 9 commissioner, and you refer to 10 identifying high risk sexual predators 11 and high risk victims. 12 And so first, by high risk 13 sexual predators, do you mean inmates 14 who have had sex -- have abused other 15 inmates, or do you mean people who were 16 sent to prison on sex offender charges 17 who are now being released to the 18 community? And the question is, 19 whether they pose a risk of being a 20 continued sex offender. 21 MS. POWERS: 22 There are policies that 23 speak of screening right now in their 24 institution, so it hasn't been 25 completely formed yet, but it could be Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 417 1 both. I mean, they're trying to 2 identify those. I mean, those in the 3 institutions that commit sexual 4 assaults and also inmates that are high 5 risk -- that are sexual predators, just 6 sexual predators in general. So it 7 would screen both. 8 COMMISSIONER FELLNER: 9 Well, my question -- if it 10 might include people who are not sent 11 to prison on sex offense charges but 12 who committed sexual offense while in 13 prison. And I was going to ask 14 everybody here, is it your sense that 15 inmates who commit sexual offenses in 16 prison, sexual perpetrators in prison 17 but who does not have prior sexual 18 offense background, tends to pose a 19 risk in community engaging in sex 20 abuse? Is this -- is there any... 21 MR. BOOKER: 22 I haven't seen any data on 23 that. I would think that that would 24 be -- that would be something that 25 would be interesting to look at. I Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 418 1 think along those lines, it's also 2 getting that information from the 3 institutions to make sure that the 4 community corrections level know that 5 that has been happening within the 6 institution. 7 COMMISSIONER FELLNER: 8 My followup on that would 9 be, you have high risk victims which 10 includes any inmate who was sexually 11 abused in prison. In the community 12 safeguard context, what does it mean to 13 be a high risk victim? Do you think 14 that people who have been abused in 15 prisons -- who have been victims in 16 prison are more likely to be abused in 17 the community? 18 MS. POWERS: 19 It's more about what 20 services they may need. If they're 21 abused in prison, what services can we 22 offer them when they get out on 23 supervision? Or if they're assaulted 24 in prison, is there something we can do 25 when they get out of supervision, Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 419 1 services that we can offer to them that 2 we're aware of that information and can 3 get them to wherever they need to go? 4 That's more what that's about, 5 identifying those types of individuals 6 so that when we supervise them, because 7 they're going to come out on 8 supervision, and sometimes, that we're 9 aware, that we can work with them and 10 get them the services they need. 11 COMMISSIONER FELLNER: 12 And can you say something 13 about the services they will need? 14 MS. POWERS: 15 I think it's going to depend 16 on what type of -- I mean, we have 17 mental health services out in the 18 community. We have counseling 19 services. We have -- we're making 20 contact with the Rape Crisis Center. I 21 mean, that's one of our -- our case 22 managers from the PREA grant are going 23 to be doing, is identifying those 24 services out in the community that 25 these offenders -- that these victims Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 420 1 or offenders may need. 2 COMMISSIONER FELLNER: 3 So this is all in the 4 future. You haven't started this? 5 MS. POWERS: 6 Right. All it is is the 7 screening tools, the things that we're 8 trying to do, that we're trying to 9 pilot is to -- that's all in the 10 process right now. That's what our 11 goal was in the grant. And so a lot of 12 this, we're still trying to work out 13 the details. And so I really don't 14 have a lot of answers for you today. 15 Hopefully, that's what the researchers 16 will be able to tell us. Because 17 that's part of the grant, is to do the 18 research on the work that we're doing. 19 MS. KOTKIN: 20 But I also like to add that 21 having that information enables 22 probation and parole not only to 23 develop a treatment plan, but also 24 possibly an alternate supervision plan. 25 So you might decide for someone who is Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 421 1 suffering posttraumatic stress disorder 2 as a result of victimization that the 3 visits won't occur in the home. It 4 will be done out in public, the 5 assignment of a probation officer who 6 is, perhaps, more sensitive to some of 7 the PTSD issues. We have cross gender 8 supervision in our state, but we don't 9 have to if we feel someone is -- might 10 be made more vulnerable by having a 11 probation officer of a different 12 gender. 13 So I think there are things 14 that we can do with that information to 15 try to supervise -- still hold 16 accountable but in a way that doesn't 17 re-victimize. 18 COMMISSIONER FELLNER: 19 And is that happening a lot, 20 using the sensitivity on cross gender 21 stuff for supervision? I thought... 22 MS. MOSS: 23 Yes. Commissioner Fellner, 24 I was thinking about your first 25 question and was hoping to answer it. Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 422 1 I apologize for that. I was trying to 2 get the Chairman's attention there. So 3 if you want to repeat the question on 4 cross gender supervision, I'll be happy 5 to respond, so. 6 COMMISSIONER FELLNER: 7 No. Answer the other 8 question. 9 MS. MOSS: 10 Oh, the other question? 11 Okay. I think that your question was, 12 if someone is a perpetrator, aggressive 13 in an institution, and they go out will 14 that continue. 15 To me, if we understand the 16 dynamics are about power and control, 17 and that's a behavior that they may 18 have experience. The circumstance when 19 they go out, they will certainly run 20 into situations that they -- those 21 dynamics are there. So I think that it 22 would stand to reason that that would 23 be -- could be a continued behavior. I 24 think in terms of someone who has been 25 victimized, when we think of -- we Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 423 1 particularly know more about women who 2 have been victimized and how they, 3 through their own depression, through 4 their own world view, understand of 5 course that they sort of -- they expect 6 that's the way it is. And I think we 7 have to think about that and be 8 informed about that in terms of people 9 who have been victimized in prisons if 10 they had not had services and help. 11 COMMISSIONER FELLNER: 12 I certainly know about the 13 women. I actually don't know as much 14 about whether men who have been 15 victimized in prison tend to end up in 16 victimized circumstances outside of 17 prison. And I find the question of how 18 power control outside of prison might 19 be exercised. Would it continue to be 20 in a sexual abusive way, and would it 21 be -- and in what kind of pattern? I 22 mean, it's -- and not a lot of research 23 has been done on this. 24 MS. MOSS: 25 No. I don't think there has Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 424 1 been a lot of research done about it, 2 and I think it's a very interesting 3 question. And if we're really going to 4 unpeal this opinion and look at the 5 reentry implication, I think it's an 6 important question. 7 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 8 Any -- any others? 9 COMMISSIONER FELLNER: 10 Cross gender? 11 MS. MOSS: 12 I didn't hear the question 13 of cross gender. 14 COMMISSIONER FELLNER: 15 The question was simply 16 that, Ms. Kotkin had said in Vermont if 17 you, let's say, have been abused by a 18 male staff, then parole -- probation 19 might be sensitive. And having a 20 female person for community 21 supervision, is there a flexibility 22 there? And I wonder if that's, in your 23 experience, is that something which 24 agent -- community agencies are doing 25 pretty frequently now, or is there not Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 425 1 much sensitivity on the cross gender 2 dimension? 3 MS. MOSS: 4 I think in some agencies 5 there's sensitivity to it. But even 6 where there's sensitivity to it, I 7 think the numbers and the complications 8 of the administrative management of 9 that get in the way. And so I think 10 that we would have to pay attention to 11 that as a factor though as we look at 12 who -- where someone gets assigned. 13 COMMISSIONER FELLNER: 14 Thank you. 15 CHAIRMAN KANEB: 16 Any other questions of any 17 of the panelist? 18 Thank you all. One last 19 observation that heartens me. 20 Ms. Kotkin, I -- my wife and 21 I have a residence in Vermont, not our 22 permanent residence, in which we 23 treasure. And I would certainly 24 confirm for everybody in the courtroom 25 that it is entirely possible that the Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 426 1 reluctance to pass this law that would 2 allow for the prosecution of parole 3 supervisor if someone -- it's not 4 because Vermont wish to make or 5 perpetrate a certain behavior, but 6 because Vermont believe it's really 7 about having to do that. And I will 8 agree that that is a very Vermont 9 attitude, which I observed. 10 I am particularly pleased 11 though to know -- to be surprised to 12 learn that -- that federal law is of 13 such interest to Vermonters that you're 14 actually have appointed a PREA office, 15 even though we haven't issued 16 standards. And you know legally, as 17 far as we can tell, we really don't 18 have direct authority in that manner. 19 So I am most pleased all around to hear 20 about this. 21 We will reconvene tomorrow 22 morning at 8:45. Thank you. 23 (Off the record.) 24 25 Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters 427 1 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE 2 I, Thu Bui, CCR, RPR, Certified 3 Court Reporter, State of Louisiana, 4 State of Texas, do hereby certify that 5 the above-mentioned witness, after 6 having been first duly sworn by me to 7 testify to the truth, did testify as 8 hereinabove set forth; 9 That the testimony was reported by 10 me in shorthand and transcribed under 11 my personal direction and supervision, 12 and is a true and correct transcript, 13 to the best of my ability and 14 understanding; 15 That I am not of counsel, not 16 related to counsel or the parties 17 hereto, and not in any way interested 18 in the outcome of this matter. 19 20 THU BUI, CCR, RPR 21 Certified Court Reporter State of Louisiana 22 State of Texas 23 24 25 Gaudet Kaiser, LLP Board-Certified Court Reporters