http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-16497462

And away from the headlines the crisis in Iraq contonues. Yesterday:

In the deadliest incident, a bomb exploded in the village of Yathrib, near Tikrit, killing three boys - aged nine and 10 - on their way to school.

Two agriculture ministry employees were also killed when a bomb attached to their vehicle exploded in al-Sharqat, in the province of Salahuddin.

In the evening, two soldiers died when gunmen attacked an army checkpoint in the northern city of Mosul.

An army colonel was earlier killed in Saadiya, in Diyala province, when a roadside bomb struck the convoy in which he was travelling.

One unconfirmed report said another roadside bomb in western Baghdad killed two Shia pilgrims, who were walking to the holy city of Karbala for Arbain, which marks the end of 40 days of mourning for Imam Hussein.

Assad manages to blame a foreign conspiracy that's so vast with regard to the situation in Syria that it now includes the Arab League, most of the Syrian opposition, the entire international community. He throws responsibility on everybody but back on himself.

For once I agree with a US foreign policy statement. Gaddafi blamed his demise on foreign powers, Saleh in Yemen blamed a "Zionist plot", Ceausescu blamed imperialists in 1989...notice any similarities, dictator sympathiasers? Everyone is always to blame but them.

re Iran alleged CIA agent
claim is based on an alledged confession which includes mention of CIA funding game developers, but such confessions, valued in sharia have been critised by human rights campaigners in Iran and abroad, but an interesting link picked up by NYT article:

'A Pentagon language-training contract won in 2009 by Kuma Games, a New York-based company that develops reality-based war games — including one called “Assault on Iran” — lists as a main contact Amir Mirzaei Hekmati, the former Marine from Flint, Mich., now on death row in an Iranian prison, convicted of spying for the C.I.A.'

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/11/world/middleeast/iran-imposes-death-sentence-on-us-man-accused-of-spying.html

Moscow Tmes running with report confirming (or giving disinfo) some of debkafile earlier report Adm Kuznetsov in Syria:

'Five ships, including aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov and destroyer Admiral Chabanenko, put in at Russia's naval maintenance and supply facility in the Syrian port of Tartus, Interfax said.'

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/russian-warships-pay-visit-to-syrian-port/450760.html

Erdogan takes time off worrying about civil war in Syria to worry about civil war in Iraq:

"Turkish PM urges Iraqis to prevent sectarian conflict
(AFP) – 22 hours ago

ISTANBUL — Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan called on political and religious leaders in Iraq on Tuesday to prevent sectarian tensions in the country.

"The last thing we want to see in Iraq is a fight between brothers," Erdogan said in televised remarks in a weekly address to his lawmakers in parliament.

"I call on all our brothers in Iraq, regardless of their persuasion and ethnic roots to listen to their conscience and hearts," Erdogan said.

"I also invite the Iraqi government, religious leaders, community leaders and countries trying to influence Iraq to behave with consciousness and responsibility," he said.

"Countries that are fanning sectarian divisions and conflicts will be responsible for each drop of blood that is shed," Erdogan added, without naming the countries.

Reuters - Iran jamming Al Jazeera broadcasts: document

Iran is jamming broadcasts by Qatar-based news channel Al Jazeera, according to a document from satellite operator Arabsat obtained by Reuters on Tuesday, with the broadcaster saying it believed it was because of its coverage of Syria.

Interference is coming from two locations in Iran, one west of Tehran and the other near the northwestern city of Maraghen, the document showed.

"We believe that this is happening because of our coverage of Syria," a senior official at Al Jazeera told Reuters, declining to be identified.

debkafile earlier report, so all great powers are sending their carriers, seperately confirmed reports carriers from Russia (Kuznetsov), US (Stennis), France (DeGualle)
http://www.debka.com/article/21633/

the exception is Cam on account of SSDR means we are sending Type 45 destroyer (mine sweepers would be more useful but less headline grabbing) as our carriers sold to India, two carriers cost £7bn yet to be built and wont have planes, as Seaharriers sold to USMC, F-35 8-10 years away

Morning. If you've noticed, Iran is seemingly stepping up aid to the Syrian government, judging by some of these accounts:

Cyprus intercepts arms bound for Syria

Turkey intercepts Syrian arms trucks.

I came across an interesting piece regarding direct Iranian and Hezbollah participation in the fighting. According to this source over 120 Hezbollah and Iranian Basij paramilitary forces have been killed by the armed Syrian opposition in the fighting.

mornin PB

"The last thing we want to see in Iraq is a fight between brothers," Erdogan said in televised remarks in a weekly address to his lawmakers in parliament.

"I call on all our brothers in Iraq, regardless of their persuasion and ethnic roots to listen to their conscience and hearts," Erdogan said.

bit rich given Turks recently bombed (Sept-Aug) the Kurds; and wonder if they will play the genocide card in Syria (given they deny there own, and still pissed at the french on that one)

I found this article regarding the recent stance of Assad and comparisons to Gaddafi's attitude: http://www.yalibnan.com/2012/01/10/syrias-bashar-al-assad-chooses-the-qaddafi-model/

The part that struck me was the list of things all these dictators have done in common:

1- Shut down the internet
2- Send thugs (on foot or horseback)
3- Attack and arrest journalists
4- Shoot people
5- Promise to investigate who shot people
6- Do a meaningless political reshuffle
7- Blame Al Jazeera
8- Organise paid demonstrations in favor of your regime
9- Make a condescending speech about how much you love the youth
10- Warn that the country will fall into chaos without you
11- Blame foreign agitators

Here's a video in Arabic about the Tawerghan refugees currently staying in Benghazi, which at least gives you an idea of the conditions they are living in.

I think Erdogan is probably more worried about Northern Iraq becoming a bit too independent and then being used as a rallying point for Kurds from Syria and Iran for a movement to establish Kurdistan, especially with Syria starting to look shakey.

Nic Robertson of CNN has been tweeting from Homs

Homs Syria: some see it as heart of uprising against Assad. Gov taking small group of intl journalists on trip there today
Homs very heavily militarized, soldiers in open-backed trucks, both civilian and miltary patrols in city
Homs encircled by wide deep newly dug trench, seem to be checkpoints on all of roads leading into city
On this gov trip, we are shown wounded soldiers in a military hospital -- they talk of ambushes by well-trained gunmen
One soldier brought into the military hosp w/severe gunshot wound just received while we were there

benad

just to pick up, the Cyprus intercept was from St Petersberg, it mentions earlier Iran shipment (which was left in the sun and blew up),

the Turkish intercept is interesting, alledged to come from Iran to Syria, could be true, but could be disinfo; not sure how can tell a box of ammo in a truck was from Iran (paperwork etc wouldnt be if your smuggling; whereas ship can be tracked) and how can you tell if destined for Syrian govt or FSA?

the defector source claim is much more interesting, only one uncorroborated source, but if report true, FSA in last 3 months have killed 120 Hezbollah and Iranian paramiliteries; raises interesting questions:

- given Hezbollah acquitted themselves well against IDF (one friend lost half his old platoon killed or wounded S Leb);
- means FSA ranks include some very well trained, experienced and require coordination, intelligence (to identify, track, and coordinate ambush)
- most reports FSA is umberella like TNC militias, I suspect some poorly equipped civlians are being used for defensive operations, whereas those offensive ops attacking Syrian Army, and if allegation true, fighting Hezbollah will be hardcore LIFG, salafists, AQ aligned); given killed 120, that means in 1,000s

In Egypt the SCAF has just announced Jan 25th will be a new national holiday in place of July 23rd which commemorates 1952 revolution.

@benad361 Made a good point about the dictators ,they tend to do these kind of things,instead of admitting the truth....thanks benad361

1- Shut down the internet
2- Send thugs (on foot or horseback)
3- Attack and arrest journalists
4- Shoot people
5- Promise to investigate who shot people
6- Do a meaningless political reshuffle
7- Blame Al Jazeera
8- Organise paid demonstrations in favor of your regime
9- Make a condescending speech about how much you love the youth
10- Warn that the country will fall into chaos without you
11- Blame foreign agitators

Assad is addressing a rally in Damascus right now, you can watch it live here.

@BrownMoses
I was way yesterday so couldn't respond to this post.

@TheAfricanMan That misses a few key points, our problem is you don't accept evidence from NGOs about various Gaddafi crimes, so you have a very positive view of someone I believe is responsible for a vast number of crimes. I support people being free of tyrants who are happy to crush them using rape and murder, whether or not it's practical to offer support to those people is another issue. The world isn't black and white, good versus evil, imperialism versus whatever, and each situation is unique.

I have never claimed Gaddafi was a saint or that him or sections of his fighters committed no crimes at all.

What I have consistently said is that your 'human rights organizations' like HRW, AI and PHR alongside the TNC, Western and Gulf Arab government ably supported by mainstream western and Gulf Arab media have exaggerated and sometimes outright lied about the extent of what was happening in Libya and have used very flimsy and dodgy 'evidence' to support their allegations.

Most of these allegations of atrocities leveled against Gaddafi can not hold up to any serious investigations and more than one intensive investigation into the main charges leveled against Gaddafi have been discredited by even your very own 'human rights organizations'.

Human rights organisations have cast doubt on claims of mass rape and other abuses perpetrated by forces loyal to Colonel Muammar Gaddafi, which have been widely used to justify Nato's war in Libya.

Nato leaders, opposition groups and the media have produced a stream of stories since the start of the insurrection on 15 February, claiming the Gaddafi regime has ordered mass rapes, used foreign mercenaries and employed helicopters against civilian protesters.

An investigation by Amnesty International has failed to find evidence for these human rights violations and in many cases has discredited or cast doubt on them. It also found indications that on several occasions the rebels in Benghazi appeared to have knowingly made false claims or manufactured evidence.

Amnesty questions claim that Gaddafi ordered rape as weapon of war

So BrownMoses, you can say you never liked Gaddafi because he was not a western styled democrat towing the western line and for that reason, you are happy in his overthrow and death but don't come here spouting those discredited allegations of atrocities to justify the intervention.

As I said, your hatred of Gaddafi(even assuming he was tyrant) has blinded you to the reality that it is ordinary Libyans and the state of Libya that has paid the price of your hatred of Gaddafi and has also blinded you to the moral and legal hypocrisy that the intervention entailed.

P.S.
You are right: 'The world isn't black and white, good versus evil, imperialism versus whatever, and each situation is unique'

The world is many shades of gray and each situation is unique. A violent and armed uprising is not peaceful protestors. Libya was not Tunisia or Egypt, The dynamics and components were totally different.

You should have thought of that when you were calling Gaddafi a tyrant whose many crimes justified the illegal, immoral and unjustified attack on his country and his family and which has led to the current state of Libya now: thousands dead, tens of thousands injured, infrastructure set back decades, no security, no stability, no functional government, no unity, no sovereignty or territorial integrity and the oil and money being stolen right infront our eyes while ordinary Libyans suffer.

That probably coincides with the Russian fleet that docked in Syria some days ago to 'replenish supplies' or something of that nature.

I've seen footage of what claims to be Hezbollah fighters in Syria, and read testemony of defected soldiers and others which claims there are also Revolutionary Guards and Iranian troops alongside the Hezbollah fighters. Their job seems to be infantry support (especially as they're not likely to defect) and to shoot dead any soldier trying to defect. Here's some examples:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6u3P80VrNU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPWuhHueW4k

http://www.sawtbeirut.com/world-news/buses-will-move-fighters-into-syria-from-hezbollah-and-iranian-revolutionary-guard/

How they allegedly know the names and numbers of those fighters killed is less clear, but I expect they have sources inside and outside the government and military, as well as defectors. In some areas, the FSA seems more like an umbrella than an organised movement. Another figure claimed 160 dead, so it is probably many more:

http://kataeb.org/EN/News/245455

benad361

the tools of repression are the same, most apply to Bahrain, Eygpt

I could also make a decent case that most apply to US to lesser extent and with a bit of creativity:

1- Shut down the internet: Homeland Security have same monitoring software from Italy as Syrians
2- Send thugs (on foot or horseback): if you count NYPD (New York Mayor bragged about his private army)
3- Attack and arrest journalists (wikileaks, AJ journalist in Gitmo)
4- Shoot people: excepting Bloody sunday, race riots, 60s student protesters, and now more sophiticated policing, in UK get kettling (also US killing is mainly overseas, drones in other countries, one for thinking about joining jihadist group, so a thought crime)
5- Promise to investigate who shot people (well, they dont even admit to drone killings, and torture)
6- Do a meaningless political reshuffle (some mayors and police cheifs might lose jobs)
7- Blame Al Jazeera (USAF bombed AJ Kabul, Baghadad, and Bush may have considered a full house with bomb Qatar, Blair told him off, also Serb and Libyan tv)
8- Organise paid demonstrations in favor of your regime (one thing democracies dont really do)
9- Make a condescending speech about how much you love the youth (applies to every political speech I have ever heard)
10- Warn that the country will fall into chaos without you (whole war on terror)
11- Blame foreign agitators (Saudi diplomat assassination plots, Gulf Tonkin)

point being, not that I want violent regime change in US, but its a list that you are using selectively

Judging by Assad's surprise appearence at this rally and his recent lengthy speeches I'm beginning to think he's been possessed by the ghost of Gaddafi.

benad361
'read testemony of defected soldiers and others which claims there are also Revolutionary Guards and Iranian troops alongside the Hezbollah fighters'

the thing with youtube defector testimony without corroborration it cant be seen as proof, they have an incentive to exaggerate; and the same line is being used by Assad to paint opposition as all AQ

you need nationality id cards, and ideally dna link to known terrorist, or other incriminating evidence (same with US evidence of foriegn jihadists in Iraq sinjar reports); my personal view, both pro and anti Assad are using violent minority groups, with foriegn help, and we prob agree that if it was peaceful to start with, its not anymore

my concern, with car bomb, more will follow and its going to be long and bloody, people caught in between

I agree, but a similar narrative is being used in Syria, Assad is worryed about Homs and other cities being used as a rallying point, becoming independat, and a base for wider Turkey protectorate, especially as US invaded Iraq and left behind sectarian violence, and getting back at it for proxy support Hamas and Hezzobollah, and that Hamas has jumped ship, and US has backed jihadists via CIA in Libya and they are next

point being that when I said 'bit rich' I want to challenge the offical narrative Erdogan is democratically elected and reigned in excesses of Turkish military and playing a valuable geo political role, Assad is murdering madman with blood on his hands and should go; and its Erdogan who is coming up with a humanitarian corridor whereas if you compare relative death tolls kurds killed in airstrikes in 100s; and syrian opposition accepting 5,000 figure but that still means only one side has used planes and one commited genocide which it denies (Armenians);

Just a reminder that we don't always get the full picture of what is and isn't happening in Libya. These are from impeccably anti-Gadaffi sources about events in Sabha in the south of Libya, so I think we can assume the events are genuine rather than some of the figments of pro-Gadaffi imagination that occur regularly on Twitter:

Libyan4life Assia Bashir Amry
How can you support a guy who is dead? RT @feb17libya Protests in Sabha in support for #Gaddafi took place earlier today - #Libya
5 Jan

libyanproud Libyan and Proud
#Sebha: Several #Gaddafi supporters from Amla district arrested (including 2 snipers) following lethal attacks on Thuwar checkpoints. #Libya
7 Jan

Personally I don't think there is that much nostalgia for Gadaffi, certainly not in the north, but like I say, this sort of thing does show that the situation in Libya may stil be more complex than we sometimes think.

Syria also appears to be violating its pledge under the agreement to protect people who communicate with the monitors from reprisal. For example, a resident of the Mo`adamiyeh neighborhood in Damascus told Human Rights Watch on January 3 that after she and her friend spoke to Arab League monitors on January 1, security forces detained her friend on January 2.

She explained that when their bus heading to Mo`adamiyeh was stopped at a military checkpoint, “they took our ID cards from us and they had a picture of her with them, and an officer said to her, ‘You were the one talking to the monitors.’ After that they pointed a gun at her until she got off of the bus. When we were speaking to the monitors I had my face covered, but she did not, which is why they could recognize her. They took her away in a security car. It was a Mitsubishi without a license plate.” ( from human rights watch)

If the Syrian Embassy in London is reading this......How do you sleep at night????

zoskia's
thanks for that, full HRW report here:
http://www.hrw.org/news/2012/01/06/syria-comply-agreement

They hate our freedoms. We are the good guys.

LOL !!

Have you only just noticed this?

re AI

I have said and defended AI and HRW work (and other INGOs) but have raised concerns about their rigour, and that there work is becoming increasingly politicised and cherry picked

Franklin Lamb (articles have been posted on volatirenet but also counterpunch and she is a genuine human rights campaigner) article on AI flawed investigation Syria hosptials 'Despite its generally exemplary work, Amnesty International, like the rest of us, in not infallible.

The fact that AI appears to have been somewhat lazy in its work and continues hyping its deeply flawed “investigation” is egregious.

AI also failed to meet the standard of investigative work that we who will continue to support and endorse its human rights work expect from it.'
http://www.opinion-maker.org/2011/10/amnesty-international-and-syria/#

even if you dont agree with her conclusion, raises some good points

She explained that when their bus heading to Mo`adamiyeh was stopped at a military checkpoint, “they took our ID cards from us and they had a picture of her with them, and an officer said to her, ‘You were the one talking to the monitors.’ After that they pointed a gun at her until she got off of the bus. When we were speaking to the monitors I had my face covered, but she did not, which is why they could recognize her. They took her away in a security car. It was a Mitsubishi without a license plate.” ( from human rights watch)

*sniff sniff* What's that smell?

And as if things weren't already volatile enough in Iraq:

from Haaretz:

"The leading French newspaper Le Figaro reported on Wednesday that Israeli Mossad agents are recruiting and training Iranian dissidents from Iraq’s Kurdish region to work against the regime in Tehran.

Quoting a security source in Baghdad, Le Figaro reported that members of the Israeli intelligence agency are actively operating in Kurdistan and recruiting Iranian exiles in the region."

Now let's see. In a situation where Maliki's Shiite Iraqi regime, with string links to Iran, is already in serious conflict with the Kurds over Kurdistan's vast oil reserves (reckoned to be equivalent to all the oil taken out of the North Sea up until now) would it be in Tehran's interests to try to calm things down between Malki and the Kurds or make them worse?

An alternative view from Syria

I posted this late yesterday - well worth a read and relevant to the double standards of western moralising over other nations:

David Hicks - ex Gitmo detainee interview

re Iran sanctions

nicely balanced article in Guardian from a market analyst:

'To improve their political acceptability, advocates have portrayed sanctions as a carefully calibrated and low-cost way to ratchet up pressure on Iran and force the country's government to suspend its enrichment programme without sparking an uncontrolled escalation of violence.
In reality, sanctions are a gamble: a bet Iran will not choose to escalate further; a bet the oil market can absorb the loss of exports without'

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/feedarticle/10033690

the publically stated position on sanctions conforms to maxim from Iraq, downplay the risks, and overstate the benefits but no one believes the politicians anymore

"Countries that are fanning sectarian divisions and conflicts will be responsible for each drop of blood that is shed," Erdogan added, without naming the countries.

Then Erdogan is responsible for a lot of it in Syria. Guy's a comedian. How desperate is he to join the EU?

Exactly. A massive bomb was/is apparently planned for Aleppo, which is huge and which would no doubt be a disaster. It is also easy to fake YT accusations if the one making them wants to remain anonymous. However I have no evidence of this.

It is a massive insurgency at best and civil war at worst.

wow, Bashar "in a jacket but no tie", now here's a real reformer. And nobody got shot? Why, nobody gets shot in those therapy sessions, bacause it's enough to "have that faith", and you're safe.

now the Algerian observer who resigned better hurry back home:

Police fired tear gas Tuesday on protesters angry over unemployment and housing shortages in a southern Algerian gas industry town, leaving at least 10 injured, officials said.

no unity, no sovereignty or territorial integrity and the oil and money being stolen right infront our eyes while ordinary Libyans suffer.

Not much has changed then. They're now exploited by the NTC and others instead of the Gaddafi family.

The people you talk to hear are all singing very much from the same sheet. They all talk about terrorism, murderers and treachery, and particularly they complain about the support of western governments for these enemies of the Syrian regime. There is a sense that they are all saying the same thing from the same script. A man just insisted to me that there was only a security solution to this crisis, no political solution.

We are only hearing one side of the story, but it is important to say there is real strength of feeling, [and] apparently, at least, pretty unanimous support for the government

God forbid that we believe what people in Homs have to say about Homs. It would have been more reliable if it were an anonymous tweet bashing Assad.

Ian Black has been given a one-sided view of the city of Homs on a government-organised trip to the centre of Syrian uprising.

'The atmosphere remains very, very controlling. What's true for the Arab League monitors is even more true for journalists. If you are in Syria as a journalist with a visa then you are pretty closely subject to government control. This trip today is an interesting example of that.

This is a government-organised trip to show the government's side of the story and they are doing that very energetically. They have brought us to the part of Homs which is controlled by the Syrian government. From here you can see virtually nothing of what's going on in the areas controlled by what people call gunmen.'

excepting that he may feel more intimadated, how does that control differ to embedding, where journalists volutarily give one side of the story; either embedding USMC in Fallujah, or British Army in Afghanistan; our method of restricting access are more subtle but the result is the same, control and/or co opting of the media:

'Because journalists find it almost impossible to reach and report from the frontline of the conflict. When the Royal Marines launched a fierce hand-to-hand battle last Christmas in the muddy poppy fields of central Helmand, four soldiers died - but the only news that escaped was a press release from the Ministry of Defence.

As in so many wars, truth seems to be the first casualty of this conflict. There has been a devastating breakdown of relations between many defence correspondents and officialdom, journalists say. "Dealing with the Ministry of Defence is genuinely more stressful than coming under fire," says the Telegraph's defence correspondent, Thomas Harding. "We have been lied to and we have been censored."

Stephen Grey cites other experienced journalists, Anthony Lloyd, Christina Lamb, although Kim Sengupta defends,

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/jun/15/afghanistan-embedded-journalists-mod

I think Erdogan is probably more worried about Northern Iraq becoming a bit too independent and then being used as a rallying point for Kurds from Syria and Iran for a movement to establish Kurdistan, especially with Syria starting to look shakey.

I've been mulling over an Iraqi Pie hypthesis for weeks now hoping it would remain null, but am now worrying it may, in part, be proven.

A slice each for the Kurds, Syria and Iran. Don't know if the Saudi's want some; their piece doesn't look particularly appetising.

Amercan Pie... Iraqi Pie... strategic nightmare!

'Libya may still be more complex than we think' - Part 2.

A bit of light royal relief, again from an impeccably anti-Gadaffi source. Make of it what you will, but she's usually fairly accurate, and other tweets support the idea that at least a few tribal chiefs have actually said something like this:

FromJoanne Joanne ♌ Leo by ArmchairArab
#Exclusive #Libya TV Will Announce today Tribal chiefs want 2Declare Cyrenaica an Emirate under Rule CrownPrince #London #MohamedElSenussi
1 hour ago

All those who are standing up to the murderous Syrian regime are absolute HEROES, and I can't begin to imagine what they are going through - both now, and over the previous decades of oppression - so I don't want to be flippant in any way, but I have to note that this (@ 12:14PM)

A wounded soldier in a hospital in Homs told Ian that protests were initially peaceful but then turned violent.

is exactly the same trite phrase used by nearly all the British media (especially the BBC) any time there is any disorder here. I imagine the Syrian media are also using phrases like 'a hardcore of troublemakers' and 'outside elements who hijacked the demonstration'.

@benad361

no unity, no sovereignty or territorial integrity and the oil and money being stolen right infront our eyes while ordinary Libyans suffer.

Not much has changed then. They're now exploited by the NTC and others instead of the Gaddafi family.

You are totally wrong.

Under Gaddafi there was
- a united Libya where factions didn't control various towns, cities and parts of the capital
- a sovereign Libya(that could get even European leaders and governments and American senators grovelling at their feet)
- a territorially secure Libya that was controlled all it's land and borders
- the oil and money was accounted for by state organizations that were run with structures and checks and balances so much so that the Libyan assets(from state organizations) were more than $150billion and Libya had no real debts whiles controlling it's oil sector

You forgot to add but I'll add since you intentionally partially quoted me

thousands dead, tens of thousands injured, infrastructure set back decades, no security, no stability, no functional government, no unity, no sovereignty or territorial integrity and the oil and money being stolen right infront our eyes while ordinary Libyans suffer

- a functional government with structures and control over the country
- a secure Libya where ordinary Libyans did not need to fear undisciplined, armed and violent thugs and robbers in their cities and towns, even the capital
- no thousands dead, no tens of thousands injured
- an up to date and improving infrastructure with construction of modern facilities taking place all over Libya

P.S.
You no longer want to argue that the revolution improves the life of Libyans?

Only giving them more of the same?

The why the need for all the death, suffering and destruction inflicted on Libya and Libyans?

The Arab League are far more corrupt, greedy and obsessed with self interest than any Western country is considered to be. What is happening in Syria is an abomination.

How China and Russia and that disgraceful Arab League can allow Assad's militia go murdering through the streets to keep a dictator in power is appalling. This situation was entirely predictable and preventable and we have done nothing. Turn the heat up on China and Russia and the appalling murderous Arab League and get a UN resolution to protect civilians like for Libya and get an arrest warrant for Assad and his henchmen. Do you remember what happened to Gaddafi, Assad? Just imagine if they get their hands on you ...

Are the Syrian and Iraqi crises about to link up? It could be the start of the nightmare scenario of a regional catastrophe if they do.

"Three Iraq policemen killed in Anbar province
(AFP) – 4 hours ago

RAMADI, Iraq — Insurgents attacked an Iraqi police station near the Syrian border early Wednesday morning and killed three policemen, including a captain, security and medical officials said.

Police managed to kill one of the gunmen who carried out the 3:00 am (0000 GMT) attack in the town of Al-Qaim, in the mostly Sunni Anbar province west of Baghdad, and wounded another. A third shooter escaped.

"Three police -- two policemen and a captain -- were killed when several armed men attacked the police station at about 3:00 am," said police Captain Mohanned Mukhlif Hamadi.

"The attack was followed by clashes between policemen at the station and the attackers.

Grabbing oil producing Kirkuk for the Kurds was certainly part of the impetus for the 2003 Iraq invasion. If a man wanted by the Iraqi government can't be touched in Northern Iraq, it's effectively it's own state.

If the rest of Iraq goes to crap, the US can always rely on their Kurdish friends.

Baba Amr or any other restive neighbourhood. From what he had seen so far, he said, there was "apparently, at least, pretty unanimous support for the government."

even if its all stage managed, there are certainly areas of Homs where they dont support Assad; it does show that Assad has some support, and not the about to crumble in weeks peddled by Isreal; which aligns to the yougov poll from Qatar that 55% of Syrian respondents do not believe President Assad should resign and only cited in Asian Times and this British Islamic cite:
http://www.alnoorcet.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=717:majority-of-syrians-do-not-want-assad-to-resign-according-to-yougovqatar-foundation-poll&catid=52:other-news-around-the-globe&Itemid=160

for some reason, my browser wont open, but original link here:
http://clients.squareeye.net/uploads/doha/polling/YouGovSirajDoha%20Debates-%20President%20Assad%20report.pdf

@The AfricanMan

You no longer want to argue that the revolution improves the life of Libyans?

Only giving them more of the same?

The why the need for all the death, suffering and destruction inflicted on Libya and Libyans?

A morbid thrill perhaps.

And here we have the guardian reporting on an Iranian Nuclear scientists killed most likely in the covert war being waged by the US and Israel, similar to whts going on right now in Syria:

An Iranian university professor working at a key nuclear facility has been killed in a bomb explosion, the latest in a series of assassinations and attempted killings linked by the country's authorities to a secret war by Israel and the US to stop the development of what Tehran insists would be a peaceful nuclear capability.

Mostafa Ahmadi Roshan, 32, a chemistry expert and a director of the Natanz uranium enrichment plant in central Iran, died after two assailants on a motorcycle attached magnetic bombs to his car, according to the semi-official Fars news agency.

Two other Iranian nationals were reported injured in the blast, which comes at a time of rising international tension.

Safar Ali Baratloo, a senior security official, was quoted by Fars as saying the attack was the work of Israelis.

"The magnetic bomb is of the same types already used to assassinate our scientists," he said. "The terrorist attack is a conspiracy to undermine the [2 March] parliamentary elections."

Israeli officials have previously hinted about covert campaigns against Iran without directly admitting involvement.
On Tuesday, Israeli military chief Lieutenant General Benny Gantz was quoted as telling a parliamentary panel that 2012 would be a "critical year" for Iran in part because of "things that happen to it unnaturally

An example of the democracy that the Americans are just itching to bring to Syria with the likes of reformed Alqaeda terrorists such as Belhaj, who now heads the Free Syrian Army.

Afternoon all ,lively posts I see.

@PeterBrit

#Exclusive #Libya TV Will Announce today Tribal chiefs want 2Declare Cyrenaica an Emirate under Rule CrownPrince #London #MohamedElSenussi

So translation being Libya splitting into two ?.Bit like former Yugoslavia.

@TheAfricanMan

Comparing what we have now in Libya post Gaddafhi, thats a pretty accurate analogy you posted prior to the uprising, but no doubt others won't see it like that.