TIP RAY: I ALSO WANTED TO SAY TO JANET I HAVE PRINTED OFF OUR SLIDES, AND WILL MAKE THOSE AVAILABLE TO YOU IF YOU ARE INTERESTED IN THAT AFTER MY PRESENTATION. ALL RIGHT. AGAIN, GOOD AFTERNOON, I'M TIP RAY. AS AN INDEPENDENT CONSULTANT, MY PROFESSIONAL FOCUS IS ON RECREATION PROGRAMS THAT ARE INCLUSIVE OF CHILDREN AND ADULTS WITH DISABILITIES. FOR THE PAST 30 YEARS I HAVE USED MANY SKILLS TO INSTRUCT AND GUIDE PEOPLE WITH AND WITHOUT DISABILITIES OFTEN TOGETHER TO ACCESS AND ENJOY BOTH DEVELOPED AND MORE REMOTE OUTDOOR RECREATION SETTINGS AND EXPERIENCES. I WAS ALSO AN APPALACHAIN TRAIL CONSERVANCY REPRESENTATIVE TO THE REGULATORY NEGOTIATION COMMITTEE WHEN THESE GUIDELINES WERE DEVELOPED AND PARTICIPATED IN SEVERAL MEETINGS.
I HAVE BEEN INVITED TO PRVOVIDE LESSONS LEARNED FROM A PERSPECTIVE OF ONE OF THE TRAIL PARTNERS. IN RECENT YEARS I HAVE WORKED WITH VARIOUS ORGANIZATIONS TO ADDRESS ISSUES SURROUNDING ACCESSIBILITY OF TRAILS AND FACILITIES. IN 2006, I CAME UNDER CONTRACT WITH THE APPALACHIAN TRAIL CONSERVANCY OR ATC TO CONDUCT A COMPREHENSIVE BASELINE ACCESSIBILITY ASSESSMENT OF OVERNIGHT SITES TAKEN FROM ALONG THE APPALACHIAN NATIONAL TRAIL. IT IS FROM THIS EXPERIENCE PRIMARILY THAT I WISH TO ADDRESS THIS BOARD.
AS YOU MAY BE AWARE, THE APPALACHIAN TRAIL IS THE NATION'S FIRST NATIONAL SEENIC TRAIL AND THE LONGEST TRAIL, APPROXIMATELY 175 MILES. IT TRAVERSES 8 NATIONAL FORESTS AND 6 NATIONAL PARKS WHILE GOING THROUGH 14 STATES AND IS A UNIT OF THE NATIONAL PARK SYSTEM, STEWARDSHIP OF THE CONSTRUCTION OF ANY NEW TRAILS AND FACILITY SEERVICES PROVIDED BY 30 VOLUNTEER TRAIL CLUBS UNDER THE GUIDANCE OF THE ATC AND THROUGH MULTIPLE INTERAGENCY PARTNERSHIPS. AN ESTIMATED 4 MILLION PEOPLE VISIT EACH YEAR TO ENJOY SHORT WALKS, DAY HIKES, AND LONG-DISTANCE BACKPACKING TRIPS. THIS MAY EXPLAIN WHY IT HAS SOMETIMES BEEN REFERRED TO AS THE “PEOPLE'S PATH”.
AWARENESS OF ACCESSIBILITY ISSUES AND THE OUTDOOR RECREATION COMMUNITY IS INCREASING FOSTERED BY CONGRESSIONAL LEGISLATION LIKE THE ADA AS WELL AS SOCIETAL REALITIES LIKE MYSELF AND MANY OF YOU ACTIVE BABY BOOMERS WHO ARE AGING BUT STILL WANT TO GET OUT THERE AND DO SOME THINGS. MORE TIME SURVIVING TRAUMATIC INJURIES DUE TO REALLY GREAT EMERGENCY MEDICINE, RAPID TECHNOLOGICAL CHANGES AND PROSTHETICS AND OTHER OUTDOOR EQUIPMENT WHICH FOSTERS MORE ACCEPTING ATTITUDES TOWARDS DISABILITY AND PROVIDES OPPORTUNITIES TO RECREATE ON THE AT AS WELL AS WITHIN OTHER OUTDOOR RECREATION ADVENTURE SETTINGS THAT IS ALSO GROWING. THIS IS REFLECTED BY INCREASED INFORMATION REQUEST TO PARTNERS FOR ACCESSIBLE RECREATION OPPORTUNITIES ALONG THE AT AS A CONSEQUENCE THERE IS A GROWING DESIRE AMONG TRAIL PARTNERS TO PROVIDE OPPORTUNITIES FOR PERSONS WITH DISABILITIES TO UTILIZE THE AT WHERE APPROPRIATE AND FEASIBLE. JANET MENTIONED SHAREHOLDER THERESA MARTINEZ SHARING WITH YOU IN DENVER TALKING ABOUT THE TRAIL. I'M GOING TO FOCUS ON FACILITIES ALONG THE TRAIL.
THE FOREST SERVICE DEVELOPED A COMPANION PIECE OF THE TRAIL ACCESSIBILITY GUIDELINES ALSO BASED ON YOUR 1999 GUIDELINES TITLED “ FOREST SERVICE OUTDOOR RECREATION ACCESSIBILITY GUIDELINES”. THESE ADDRESS IN A USER FRIENDLY MANNER THE SCOPING AND TECHNICAL PROVISIONS -- INCLUDING THOSE BUILT WITHIN MORE BACK COUNTRY AREAS. THE FOREST SERVICE CALLS THESE AREAS “GENERAL FOREST AREAS” WHERE THE SOLE PURPOSE FOR FACILITIES WOULD BE FOR RESOURCE PROTECTION. IT IS IMPORTANT THAT WE CONSIDER THESE MORE REMOTE AREAS WHEN WE TALK ABOUT GUIDELINES IN OUTDOOR AREAS.
I HIKED THE AT END TO END FROM GEORGIA TO MAINE OVER 5 MONTHS LAST YEAR IT WAS A WONDERFUL AND LIFE FULFILLING EXPERIENCE, I STOPPED AND ASSESSED 252 OF THE 263 OVERNIGHT SITES ALONG THE WAY. I USED THE FOREST SERVICE GUIDELINES AS A […] FOR MY EVALUATION WORK. THIS SLIDE SHOWS YOU THE DIFFERENT KINDS OF FACILITIES THAT ONE MIGHT FIND AT A TYPICAL OVERNIGHT SITE. WE TALK ABOUT PRIVIES, I THINK IN THE GUIDELINES YOU TALK ABOUT PIT TOILETS, THE SAME IDEA. BUT ALL KINDS OF BASIC KINDS OF FACILITIES THAT YOU MAY FIND THERE. SO I SHOULD POINT OUT TOO THAT I DID NOT EVALUATE THE TRAIL AND I DID NOT EVALUATE ANY PATHWAYS BETWEEN ANY OF THESE FACILITIES AT THE SITES. THAT WOULD HAVE TAKEN MONTHS MORE.
WHAT HAVE WE LEARNED HERE? PROPOSED GUIDELINES WILL APPLY ONLY TO THE FEDERAL AGENCIES WE KNOW THAT. ALL OF THESE AGENCYS ARE CURRENTLY REQUIRED TO MAKE THE FACILITIES ACCESSIBLE BASED ON CURRENT LEGISLATION. THIS APPLIES ALSO TO PARTNERS SUCH AS THE ATC AND THEIR TRAIL CLUBS WHO ARE OUT THERE CONSTRUCTING FACILITIES, SO THEY TOO ARE UNDER OBLIGATIONS BY LAW TO MAKE FACILITIES ACCESSIBLE. WE THINK THEREFORE, THAT ALL NEW AND OR RECONSTRUCTED OUTDOOR ELEMENTS ON FEDERAL LAND SHOULD BE REQUIRED TO BE ACCESSIBLE. NO ENTITY HAS THE AUTHORITY TO OVERRULE THOSE ACCESSIBILITY LAWS BECAUSE THEY THINK A PERSON WITH A DISABILITY WON'T GO THERE. I HEARD THAT A LOT WHEN I WAS ON TRAIL IN MY PERSONAL AND PROFESSIONAL EXPERIENCE JUDGING ONES ABILITY TO HIKE THE AT AND OTHER NATIONAL PARKS HAS VERY LITTLE TO DO WITH THE ABSENCE OF DISABILITY, WE KNOW THAT HIKING CAN GO BE VERY CHALLENGING PHYSICALLY ESPECIALLY OVER THE TERRAIN OF THE AT, FAILURE TO COMPLETE A HIKE IS OFTEN A FUNCTION OF ONE'S MENTAL FITNESS OR ATTITUDE, WE SHOULD NEVER UNDERESTIMATE WITH A HIGHLY MOTIVATED HIKER EVEN ONE WITH A DISABILITY CAN ACCOMPLISH IF THEY CHOOSE TO TEST THEMSELVES THIS WAY. WE HAVE LEARNED THAT ACCESSIBILITY WORKS EVEN FOR REMOTE AREA STRUCTURES SUCH AS THOSE FOUND ALONG THE AT. THE DECISION PROCESS SHOULD INCLUDE ASKING THIS QUESTION. HOW DO WE MAKE THE FACILITY ACCESSIBLE WITH AS PRIMITIVE A DESIGN AS POSSIBLE. THE CHALLENGE IS ENSURING THAT ANYTHING BUILT ALONG THE AT IS DESIGNED APPROPRIATELY FOR PRIMITIVE SETTING AND THAT THE FACILITY CAN BE USED FOR ITS PRIMARY PURPOSE BY ALL HIKERS INCLUDING HIKERS WITH DISABILITIES. THIS PURPOSE IS BASIC AND FUNDAMENTAL TO ALL HIKERS. A DRY AND HOPEFULLY PEST FREE PLACE TO MAKE A MEAL AND SLEEP, A CONVENIENT WATER SOURCE, A COMFORTABLE PLACE TO DO ONE'S PERSONAL BUSINESS, AND A CHANCE TO REST, RELAX AND RECOVER.
A LESSON WE HAVE LEARNED THAT FULLY ACCESSIBLE FACILITIES CAN BE BUILT CONGRUENT WITH THIS NATIONAL SETTING IN WHICH THEY MAY BE FOUND. AS THE NEXT TWO EXAMPLES ALSO SHOW. AND THIS IS UP IN THE SMOKEY MOUNTAINS THERE WAS AN ALTERATION WHERE A PORCH WAS PUT ON IT. AND WALNUT MOUNTAIN WHICH WAS BUILT 77 YEARS AGO, AND OLDIE BUT GOODIE FACILITY UP THERE. IT IS POSSIBLE TO IMPLEMENT SITE DESIGN IMPROVEMENTS THAT INCREASE THE COMFORT OF THE USERS -- ALL WITHOUT SACRIFICING THE PRIMITIVE EXPERIENCE, GOOD DESIGN BLENDS THESE FEATURES SO WELL THAT MOST USERS WOULD NEVER BELIEVE THAT THEY ARE IN FACT ACCESSIBLE. WE HAVE LEARNED THAT IT IS POSSIBLE TO HAVE FULLY ACCESSIBLE FACILITIES EVEN IF THE TRAILS AND PATHWAYS LEADING TO THEM HAVE ISSUES SO COMPLEX THAT THEY CAN EASILY QUALIFY FOR ONE OF YOUR CONDITIONS OF EXCEPTION. I KNOW IT IS POSSIBLE BECAUSE I SAW IT ON THE AT.
AND THANKS TO THE EFFORTS OF THE ATC, THEY ARE ESTABLISHING POLICIES AND GUIDELINES IN SUPPORT OF SIMPLE PRIMITIVE YET UNIVERSALLY ACCESSIBLE SHELTER AND PRIVY DESIGNS. SO I WANTED TO ADDRESS QUESTION NUMBER 14, WHICH IS SHOULD ELEMENTS LOCATED ON INACCESSIBLE TRAILS BE REQUIRED TO BE ACCESSIBLE THIS IS YOUR QUESTION IN YOUR NOTICE, THROUGH AN EXPERIENCE LESSON LEARNED IT IS YES, FOR THE MOST PART WITH THE FOLLOWING REASONING.
IT HAS BEEN SAID THAT HIKING IS CHALLENGED BY CHOICE. ONE CAN CHOOSE TO HIKE WHERE THEY WANT TO, EVEN IF IN RUGGED BACK COUNTRY THAT MEANS THEY WILL NEED ASSISTANCE TO DO SO IF THAT IS THE TYPE OF EXPERIENCE THAT THEY WANT. BUT USING A TOILET FACILITY, FOR EXAMPLE, ISN'T A CHOICE.
THEREFORE, IT SHOULDN'T BE A CHALLENGE AS THIS SLIDE ILLUSTRATES WITH THIS PRIVY. THE SAME COMMON SENSE -- TENT PADS, FIRINGS AND SO FORTH WHETHER FIXED OR UNFIXED PICNIC TABLES AND BENCHES, THEY SHOULD ALL BE INSTALLED AS ACCESSIBLE. FACILITIES ARE PLACED IN BACK COUNTRY AREAS PRIMARILY FOR RESOURCE PROTECTION, HIKERS ARE OFTEN INSTRUCTED TO CONCENTRATE THEIR USE AT THESE SITES. NATIONAL PARKS FOR EXAMPLE, IMPOSES STRICT LIMITS ON WHERE BACKPACKERS CAN CAMP THEREFORE HIKES VERSUS NO CHOICE -- THEREFORE IT IS ESSENTIAL THAT ALL FACILITIES AND ELEMENTS PROVIDED MEET ACCESSIBLE STANDARDS, IF NOT THEN THERE NEEDS TO BE SOME LEVEL OF DIRECT ACCOUNTABILITY THAT CLEARLY JUSTIFIES WHY ACCESSIBILITY IS NOT POSSIBLE.
WE ALSO BELIEVE THAT THE FINAL ACCESS BOARD GUIDELINE SHOULD FOLLOW THE FOREST SERVICE GUIDELINES WITH RESPECT TO GRAB BARS IN PRIVIES. THE TOP 2 SLIDES SHOW THEM WITH GRAB BARS AND THE BOTTOM 2 SHOW A SIMPLE SCREENING STRUCTURE THERE. THE GUIDELINES SAY THAT THEY ARE REQUIRED -- CLEARLY EXPLAIN THAT GRAB BARS ARE REQUIRED IN THE TOILET STRUCTURES WHEN WALLS ARE CONSTRUCTED THAT CAN WITHSTAND 200 POUNDS OF FORCE THIS IS AN ADA/ABA REQUIREMENT FOR SAFETY. WHILE WALLS ARE NOT CURRENTLY REQUIRED AT PRIVIES THERE MAY BE TIMES DUE TO THE PROXIMITY OF THE TOILET TO THE SITE LINE OF THE OTHER SHELTER AREAS WHEN A PRIVACY SCREEN OF LIGHTER MATERIALS MIGHT NEED TO BE CONSTRUCTED. THESE OBVIOUSLY WOULD NOT SUPPORT GRAB BARS. AND YOU CAN SEE THOSE DISTINCTIONS IN THE SLIDES SO THE DIFFERENCES SHOULD BE CLARIFIED IN THE FINAL ACCESS BOARD GUIDELINES.
PHILIP PEARCE [BOARD MEMBER]: YOUR TIME IS ABOUT UP.
TIP RAY: ONE FINAL THING ABOUT THE HIKE WERE THE DISABILITY, WHILE WE KNOW IF HIKERS OF VARIOUS -- MANY INDIVIDUALS WITH PHYSICAL DISABILITYS ARE VERY LIKELY TRAVELING WITH A PARTNER, OR SMALL GROUP.
PEOPLE WHO CAN ASSIST THEM AT THE REALLY TOUGH SPOTS ALONG THE TRAIL. I HAVE RESPECTFULLY LEARNED IN MY TRAVELS THAT WHEN ASSISTANCE IS GIVEN TO THAT PERSON THE RESULT IS THEIR TEMPORARY LOSS OF INDEPENDENCE, A VALUED PERSONAL ATTRIBUTE THE PERSON WITH A DISABILITY IS RELUCTANT TO GIVE UP EXCEPT IN EXTREME SITUATIONS AN ACCESSIBLE OVERNIGHT SITE ALLOWS THAT PERSON TO GAIN THEIR OWN INDEPENDENCE AT LEAST FOR A NIGHT UNTIL THE NEXT TIME THAT THEY NEED TO ASK FOR ASSISTANCE, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR GIVING ME THIS OPPORTUNITY AND GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR WORK, I WILL TAKE ANY QUESTION IF YOU HAVE THEM.
PHILIP PEARCE: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. RAY, DO ANY OF THE BOARD MEMBERS HAVE QUESTIONS FOR MR. RAY? I DO HAVE ONE QUESTION FOR YOU.
HAVE YOU ALL LOOKED AT RELATIVE COSTS OF PUTTING ACCESSIBLE FACILITIES OUT IN SOME OF THE MORE REMOTE AREAS AS OPPOSED TO LESS ACCESSIBLE OR NONACCESSIBLE, BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY THAT IS ONE OF THE QUESTIONS THAT WE ARE GOING TO HAVE SO I'M JUST CURIOUS ABOUT ANY KIND OF WORK THAT YOU GUYS HAVE DONE AND KNOW ABOUT THAT.
TIP RAY: IT WASN'T SOMETHING THAT I TALKED WITH THE ATC FOLKS ABOUT, I KNOW THEY HAVE REPRESENTATIVES HERE, AND THEY WOULD BE BETTER ABLE TO ADDRESS THAT, BUT JUST FROM MY PROFESSIONAL EXPERIENCE, IF THE ACCESSIBILITY IS DESIGNED IN UP FRONT, THE COSTS SHOULD NOT BE SIGNIFICANT OR EVEN AN ISSUE AT ALL. SO... BUT I THINK PERHAPS THERE MIGHT BE OTHER PEOPLE IN THE AUDIENCE WHO CAN ADDRESS THAT QUESTION MORE SPECIFICALLY ON BEHALF OF THE ATC.
DAVID PARK [DEPARTMENT OF INTERIOR LIAISON TO THE BOARD]: YES, TIP, I HAD A QUESTION AS YOU WERE TALKING, YOU DID INDICATE THAT THE APPALACHIAN TRAIL IS MANAGED BY THE NATIONAL PARK SERVICE BUT OF COURSE IT CROSSES LANDS FROM A LOT OF DIFFERENT AGENCIES AS WELL, INCLUDING THE US FOREST SERVICE. THERE WAS A LOT OF DISCUSSION IN THE REGULATORY NEGOTIATING COMMITTEE ABOUT THAT ISSUE OF WHEN YOU PUT ELEMENTS EVEN IF IT IS IN THE BACK COUNTRY SHOULD IT BE ACCESSIBLE OR SHOULD IT NOT, AND IT RESULTED IN THE QUESTION THAT YOU REFERRED TO.
I HAVEN'T HIKED THE APPALACHIAN TRAIL THE WAY YOU HAVE, SO I'M JUST CURIOUS, CAN YOU TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE INCIDENCE OF THESE ELEMENTS? ARE THERE A LOT OF THEM OUT THERE? ARE THEY REALLY WIDELY SCATTERED?
TIP RAY: WELL, THE ELEMENTS WE ARE TALKING ABOUT.
DAVID PARK [DEPARTMENT OF INTERIOR LIAISON TO THE BOARD]: PICNIC TABLES, AND PRIVIES AND TOILETS AND WHAT OTHER KIND OF ELEMENTS DID YOU SEE AS YOU HIKED THE TRAIL.
TIP RAY: RIGHT GENERALLY THEY ARE CONGREGATED EVERY 10 TO 15, 16 MILES APART. IT REALLY VARIES STATE TO STATE. AND BUT I COULD RELY ON THAT AS A HIKER, I COULD GET UP IN THE MORNING AND PLAN MY ROUTE SO THAT YOU KNOW, BY THE END OF THE DAY, A GOOD COMFORTABLE DAY, I COULD ARRIVE AT THE NEXT SHELTER SITE DOWN THE TRAIL. AGAIN, YOU KNOW, 10, 15, I THINK THERE WAS ONE STRETCH OF ABOUT 18, AND THEN THERE ARE OTHERS WHEN IT CROSSES THROUGH MAYBE SOME STATE LANDS UP AROUND BEAR MOUNTAIN IN NEW YORK, WHERE THE INCIDENCE OF SHELTERS IS 31 MILES AND IT JUST HAS TO DO WITH THE MANAGEMENT AGENCY AND WHAT THEY ALLOW, I ASSUME. IF THAT IS THE CASE, THEN SOMETIMES WE SPINOFF AND GO INTO TOWN AND, YOU KNOW, STAY IN A MOTEL, OR AT A HOSTILE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. BUT THEY ARE PREVALENT OUT THERE, ABOUT 263, THAT DOESN'T INCLUDE SOME ISOLATED CAMP SITES, CAMP GROUNDS, I THINK IN THE SMOKEYS THERE IS AN A DEDICATED CAMP GROUND AT THE SOUTHERN END THAT I DID NOT ASSESS, I DIDN'T ASSESS ANY OF THE HUTS UP IN THE WHITES. OR THE APPALACHIAN THE BIGGER HUTS.
DAVID PARK: I ASK ONE OTHER QUESTION FOR PUTTING THIS IN PROPER PERSPECTIVE AS YOU ARE TALKING PRIMARILY ABOUT AN EXPERIENCE ON THE APPALACHIAN TRAIL . YOU HAVE ALSO DONE A LOT OF WORK WITH A LOT OF OTHER PARK AND RECREATION AREAS AND TO POINT OUT THAT THERE IS A VAST DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE AT AND THE OTHER PARK AREAS FOR WHICH THESE GUIDELINES WILL REALLY APPLY.
TIP RAY: RIGHT.
PHILIP PEARCE: ANYBODY ELSE? ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR TESTIMONY, WE REALLY APPRECIATE THAT.