American Shore and Beach Preservation Association, Harry Simmons
September 6, 2007   [Hearing Testimony]


HARRY SIMMONS: AS YOU SAY I'M MAYOR OF CASWELL BEACH IN SOUTHEASTERN NORTH CAROLINA BASICALLY BETWEEN WILMINGTON AND MYRTLE BEACH I AM ALSO HERE AS PRESIDENT OF THE AMERICAN SHORE AND BEACH PRESERVATION, KNOWN AS ASBPA. THE ACCESSIBILITY GUIDELINES FOR FEDERAL OUTDOOR DEVELOPED AREAS AND PARTICULAR THE PROVISIONS CONCERNING BEACH ACCESS, AS PROPOSED THESE GUIDELINES REQUIRE STABLE BEACH ACCESS ROUTES IS A HIGHLY DESIRABLE GOAL, HOWEVER THE GUIDELINES REACHED -- DYNAMICS OF AN ACTIVE BEACH ENVIRONMENT. IN RESPONSE TO THE PROPOSED GUIDELINES, ASBPA SURVEYED IT’S CROSS COUNTRY MEMBERSHIP WHICH INCLUDES ACADEMIAS, AN ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERSES BEACH EXPERT AND OTHERS. THE SUBSTANCE OF ANY COMMENTS TODAY WERE BASED FROM THE FEEDBACK WE RECEIVED.

WHAT SHOCKED ME MOST ABOUT THE RESPONSES WAS THE ALMOST UNANIMOUS OPINION THAT MANY OF THE MOST IMPORTANT REQUIREMENTS IN THE GUIDELINES ARE INCOMPATIBLE WITH THE WAY A BEACH NATURALLY WORKS. ARE YOU GOING ON TO IF FIRST ONE, MAYBE? I HAVE MY TECHNICAL GUY OVER HERE.

SEVERAL KEY POINTS REOCCURRED IN THE RESPONSES I RECEIVED. FIRST, AND THE POINT I WILL SPEND THE MOST TIME ON BECAUSE IT RECEIVED THE MOST CONCERN FROM MY COLLEAGUES, IS REQUIRING THE ACCESS ROUTE TO END AT THE MEAN HIGH WATER LINE IS EXTREMELY CLOSE TO THE WAVES AND WILL RESULT IN REGULAR DESTRUCTION OF THE ACCESS ROUTE. THE MEAN HIGH WATER LINE IS A MOVING FEATURE OF THE BEACH. IT IS CONSTANTLY ADJUSTING THROUGHOUT THE SEASONS, ON SOME LONG FLAT BEACHES, THE LINE MOVES UPWARDS OF 100 FEET BACK AND FORTH A COUPLE OF TIMES A YEAR. ADDITIONALLY, THE BEACH ELEVATION VARIES ACROSS THE BEACH PROFILE ON EACH BEACH. TYPICAL SEASONAL CHANGES ARE 6 TO 8 FEET VERTICALLY BUT HAVE EXCEEDED 12 FEET FOR BOTH EROSION AND RECOVERY OVER A DAY TO A WEEK TIME PERIOD USUALLY CAUSED BY LARGE WAVE EVENTS, ALSO KNOWN AS STORMS.

IT IS ASSUMED THAT HIGH TIDE LEVEL DESCRIBED AS THE ACCESS ROUTE TERMINUS, APPROXIMATES THE MEAN HIGH WATER ELEVATION, THIS AREA HAS A TIDE RANGE OF ROUGHLY 4 FEET RESULTING IN A MEAN HIGH WATER ELEVATION OF PLUS 2 FEET ABOVE MEAN SEA LEVEL. THE BEACH IS FORMED BY AND IS AN INDICATOR OF WAVE RUN UP AT EACH HIGH TIDE. THE BERM TO BEACH SPACE IS TYPICALLY PLUS 6 TO PLUS 8 FEET ABOVE MEAN SEA LEVEL.

THEREFORE, WAVE RUN UP CAN BE EXPECTED TO OCCUR 4 TO 6 FEET ABOVE THE HIGH TIDE LEVEL OR MEAN HIGH TIDE SPECIFIED AS THE END OF THE ACCESS ROUTE. A VARIETY OF COMMERCIALLY AVAILABLE MATS AND FABRICS COULD BE USED FOR A TEMPORARY ACCESS ROUTE, BUT NONE ARE LIKELY TO REMAIN STABLE IN THE WAVE RUN UP AT HIGH TIDE. BEYOND THE STRUCTURAL THREAT TO THE ACCESS ROUTE, DISLODGED MATERIAL PUSHED BY WAVE RUN UP WILL CREATE POTENTIALLY DANGEROUS DEBRIS THAT THREATENS ANYONE REQUIRING USE OF THE ACCESS ROUTE OR ANYONE ELSE IN THE SURF. MANY OF MY COLLEAGUES SUGGESTED MOVING THE ENDPOINT OF A BEACH ACCESS ROUTE TO A POINT FURTHER FROM THE WATER WHICH MAY ADDRESS SOME OF THESE PROBLEMS. BUT PLEASE KEEP IN MIND THE COST OF MAINTENANCE IS USUALLY INCURRED BY LOCAL GOVERNMENTS.
TERMINATING THE ACCESS ROUTE AT THE HIGH TIDE LEVEL MAKES IT LIKELY THAT A TEMPORARY ACCESS STRUCTURE WOULD BE DISPLACED OR PARTIALLY DESTROYED WITH EACH RISING TIDE TWICE PER DAY. AT A MINIMUM FULL-TIME MAINENANCE PERSON THEN WOULD BE REQUIRED FOR EACH ACCESS ROUTE. MOVING THE TERMINATION POINT TO THE INTERSECTION OF THE BERM AND BEACH FACE WOULD INCREASE BUT NOT GUARANTEE THE CHANCE OF AVOIDING DAMAGE, OR BURIAL AT EACH HIGH TIED. FULL-TIME MAINTENANCE AT EACH ACCESS ROUTE DURING A COUPLE OF HOURS AROUND HIGH TIDE WOULD BE REQUIRED FOR SAFETY AND STABILITY. MOVING THE TERMINUS WELL LAND WARD OF THE BERM BEACH FACE INTERSECTION WOULD SUBSTANTIALLY REDUCE BUT NOT ELIMINATE THE NEED NOR FREQUENT MAINTENANCE.

ANOTHER IDEA SUGGESTED BY MY COLLEAGUES WAS PURSUING INSTALLATION OF ACCESS ROUTES IN A PHASED PROCESS SINCE EACH BEACH IS DIFFERENT AND […] OF THE BEACH ACT DIFFERENTLY ALLOWING DIFFERENT KINDS OF ACCESS ROUTES TO BE INSTALLED TO DETERMINE WHICH WORKS IT IS BEST FOR THAT BEACH BEFORE REQUIRING MORE WIDESPREAD INSTALLATION THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE BEACH PROJECT AREA.

FINALLY, PLEASE KEEP IN MIND THAT BEACH SAFETY VEHICLES AND MAINTENANCE VEHICLES NEED TO HAVE UNIMPEDED MOVEMENT ALONG THE BEACH. FORCING VEHICLES TO GO AROUND ACCESS EQUIPMENT BY DRIVING INTO THE SURF LINE IS NOT DESIRABLE. THIS IS MOST IMPORTANT DURING SEVERE WEATHER CONDITIONS WHEN THE WAVES ARE HIGHEST. VEHICLES NEED TO BE ABLE TO PATROL THE BEACH FOR DANGEROUS EROSION OR POTENTIALLY LIFE THREATENING SITUATION IF VEHICLES ARE IMPEDED BY MOVING UP AND DOWN THE BEACH IT COULD RESULT IN PROPERTY OR HUMAN LOSS, TEMPORARY MATS OR FABRICS MIGHT BE PASSABLE BUT WILL GET BEATEN UP QUICKLY IF 2 TON PICKUP TRUCKS ARE DRIVING OVER THEM TWICE A DAY, IF THEY EXTEND TO HIGH WATER MEAN LIKE THAT WILL ALSO BE ONE MORE HAZARD THAT SAFETY PERSONNEL WOULD HAVE TO MONITOR.
THE NEXT POINT I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE IS A QUESTION THAT WILL BE ON EVERY LOCAL ELECTED OFFICIAL'S MIND. HOW IS THIS GOING TO BE PAID FOR THE FEDERAL BEACH PROJECTS THE BEACH NOURISHMENT PROJECTS YOU HEARD ABOUT EARLIER RANGE FROM A COUPLE OF MILES LIKE TO [….] MILES. IT REQUIRES 40 PERCENT OF THE […] AND FEDERAL BEACH PROJECT AREAS REQUIRE PUBLIC ACCESS POINTS EVERY HALF MILE. SO FOR A 90 MILE PROJECT THAT WILL NEED TO BE ACCESS ROUTES AT 72, OF THE 180 PUBLIC ACCESS POINTS.

IN THE CURRENT FEDERAL BUDGET CLIMATE I FIND IT VERY UNLIKELY TO THE OFFICE OF MANAGEMENT AND BUDGET WILL INCLUDE THE FUNDING NEEDED TO CARRY THIS OUT. THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS SEVERELY UNDER FUNDING THESE PROJECTS AT THE TIME. BETWEEN THE ADMINISTRATION DESIRE TO DISENGAGE IN THE PROJECTS AND CONGRESS'S INABILITY TO FULLY FUND THEM MANY OF THESE PROJECTS THAT ARE USED TO REDUCE STORM DAMAGE [….] INVESTIGATE BEEN SIGNIFICANTLY DELAYED. AS OF CURRENTLY IT FALLS UPON THE LOCAL -- AND FACILITIES ALONG THE BEACH, IT WILL LIKELY ALSO BE THEIR RESPONSIBILITY TO COME UP WITH THE FUNDING TO OVERSEE CONSTRUCTION AND CONTINUED MAINTENANCE OF THESE ACCESS POINTS. NOT ONLY WILL LOCALITY HAVE TO PICK UP THESE COSTS BUT ALSO NEED TO HIRE MORE PERSONNEL FOR THESE PURPOSES […] IF MATS ARE USED. I'M NOT SUGGESTING THAT LOCAL GOVERNMENTS DO NOT HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO PROVIDE ACCESS AND FACILITIES FOR PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES. BUT I'M TRYING TO CONVEY TO THE BOARD THAT THE CURRENT BUDGET RESTRICTIONS IN WASHINGTON WILL PLACE A DISPROPORTIONATE FINANCIAL BURDEN UPON LOCAL COMMUNITIES TO FUND A FEDERAL REQUIREMENT AS A FEDERAL PROJECT.

FINALLY THE GUIDELINES MAY HAVE SOME NEGATIVE IMPACTS ON THE BEACH ENVIRONMENT AND HABITAT, AS MAYOR OF CASWELL BEACH WHICH HAS A FEDERAL BEACH PROJECT, I CANNOT STRESS ENOUGH HOW ATTENTIVE WE ARE TO MAKE SURE THAT THE BEACHES ARE KEPT CLEAN OF DANGEROUS DEBRIS AND THAT WILDLIFE HAVE UNIMPEDED ACCESS. MY FEAR IS IF ACCESS GOES DOWN TO HIGH MEAN WATER LINE OR ARE DESTROYED BY WEATHER, IT WILL BE UNSAFE FOR HUMANS OR ANIMAL TO USE THAT AREA OF THE BEACH. -- DISRUPT THE SHORE BIRDS SUCH AS THE PIPING PLOVER COULD RAISE CONCERNS WITH OTHER FEDERAL AND STATE AGENCIES OR VIOLATE EXISTING STATE AND FEDERAL LAWS.
IN THE ESSENCE OF TIME I WILL FURTHER ADDRESS ASBPA WRITTEN COMMENTS THAT I INTEND TO FILE WITH THE BOARD LATER THIS MONTH, I THANK THE BOARD FOR ALLOWING ME TO APPEAR AND I WELCOME MY QUESTIONS THAT YOU MAY HAVE.

PHILIP PEARCE [BOARD MEMBER]: THANK YOU, MAYOR SIMONS DO ANY OF THE MEMBERS HAVE QUESTIONS, JIM ELEKES.

JIM ELEKES [BOARD MEMBER]: THANK YOU MAYOR FOR COMING, I JUST WANT TO FOLLOW UP ON YOUR LOGIC RELATIVE TO THE COST. IF -- AND I AM A SOUTH CAROLINA RESIDENT SO YOUR NEIGHBOR TO THE NORTH. IN MOST OF THE GRAND STRAND, THE BEACH REPRESENTS A PLAUSIBLE, A SUBSTANTIAL INCOME FOR THE MUNICIPALITIES IN THE CASE OF MYRTLE BEACH WE HAVE NEARLY 1.7 MILLION VACATIONERS EACH YEAR. BECAUSE OF THE AGE RELATED DISABILITY AND THE AGE OF THE BABY BOOM POPULATION, THAT, IF PEOPLE DO NOT -- ARE COMING TO THE BEACH YET WILL NOT HAVE ACCESS BECAUSE OF AGE RELATED DISABILITY, SHOULDN'T IT BE THE MUNICIPALITY OR SOME COMBINATION OF THE MUNICIPALITY AND BUSINESSES'S RESPONSIBILITY TO FOSTER OR FUND THAT WHICH THEY ARE DERIVING THEIR INCOME FROM?

HARRY SIMMONS: I DON'T DISAGREE THAT THOSE WHO BENEFIT FROM THAT REVENUE STREAM THAT YOU TALK ABOUT SHOULD BE RESPONSIBLE FOR PAYING THE COST OF THIS REQUIREMENT. BUT I WILL SAY THAT MYRTLE BEACH IS NOT LIKE LYCHFIELD. YOU HAVE THE SAME LEVEL OF REQUIREMENT FOR BEACH ACCESS WOULD BE IN BOTH PLACES.

IT WOULD SEEM LIKELY TO ME THAT MYRTLE OR VIRGINIA BEACH WITH VERY HIGH DENSITY, LARGE TOURIST RELATED FACILITIES MIGHT HAVE A BIGGER RESPONSIBILITY FOR PROVIDING THE KIND OF AGE RELATED ACCESS YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. A BEACH THAT HAS A MUCH LOWER DENSITY, PERHAPS THEY SHOULD NOT HAVE TO PROVIDE THE SAME THE SAME LEVEL OF ACCESS.

JIM ELEKES: IF I MAY FOLLOW-UP. BUT THE AREA OF THAT YOU ARE SPEAKING OF IS A BURGEONING RETIREMENT COMMUNITY WITH AT LEAST 25 PROJECTS NOW PENDING FROM GEORGETOWN DOWN TO CHARLESTON FOR RETIREMENT COMMUNITIES SO AGAIN SHOULDN'T IT BE PERHAPS THE INDIVIDUAL [….] CONTRACTOR IN CONCERT WITH THE COMMUNITY TO ARRANGE FOR THE INTEGRITY OF THE BEACH SINCE THIS IS ONE OF THE DRAWS FOR THE RETIREMENT COMMUNITY.

HARRY SIMMONS: I WOULDN'T DISAGREE WITH THAT. I THINK THE AREA OF THE DEVELOPER OF THE AREA THAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT SHOULD HAVE A LOT TO DO WITH PROVIDING THIS KIND OF AMENITY.

JIM ELEKES: SO THEN IT WOULD FOLLOW THEN THAT THE ONUS SHOULD NOT BE EXCLUSIVELY IN THESE TYPES OF AREAS WHERE PEOPLE ARE FLOCKING TO GO TO THE BEACH BECAUSE OF PREFERRED RETIREMENT. THIS SHOULD NOT BE SOLELY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

HARRY SIMMONS: I NEVER SAID IT SHOULD BE SOLELY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, WE ARE ALWAYS PARTICIPATING IN THESE BEACH PROJECTS AS A COST SHARE PARTNER, I THINK THOUGH THAT WHEN YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT IT BEING 100 PERCENT A LOCAL COST, WHEN THE BENEFIT, FOR EXAMPLE, MY TOWN, 3 MILES LONG, IS OWNED BY A PROPERTY OWNERS. THE PROPERTY OWNERS IN MY TOWN LIVE IN 28 DIFFERENT STATES. SO IT IS NOT A LOCAL ISSUE AT ALL. THE MONEY THAT IS GENERATED FROM THE TOURISM THAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT GOES BACK HOME TO 28 DIFFERENT STATES. THAT TO ME MAKES THIS A FEDERAL ISSUE ALL BY ITSELF.

BUT THEN YOU ADD TO THAT THE FACT THAT A LOT OF THE MONEY THAT IS GENERATED BY THE TOURISM IN MYRTLE BEACH AND OTHER PLACES ENDS UP IN THE FEDERAL COFFERSES. CERTAINLY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SHOULD HAVE SOME RESPONSIBILITY IN THE COST OF THESE -- AND THIS IS NOT THE ONLY PLACE WHERE I HAVE THIS DISCUSSION. BELIEVE ME IT IS NOT ONLY ABOUT BEACH ACCESS, OR THERE ARE ANY NUMBER OF PLACES WHERE YOU CAN TALK ABOUT THE REQUIREMENT FOR THE FOLKS WHO LIVE IN OHIO WHO COME TO THE BEACH AND MYRTLE BEACH SHOULD HAVE SOME RESPONSIBILITY FOR MAKING SURE THAT WHAT THEY WANT IS THERE WHEN THEY GET THERE.

JIM ELEKES: BUT AREN'T THEY LEAVING THEIR RESOURCES THERE BECAUSE THEY ARE COMING TO THAT BEACH TO RECREATE AND THE BUSINESSES ARE --

HARRY SIMMONS: TO SOME EXTENT.

JIM ELEKES: NOT A SIGNIFICANT EXTENT. -- THE NUMBER.

HARRY SIMMONS: THE NUMBERS WE HAVE SEEN THAT THE BENEFITS FROM THE BEACH PROJECT ACCRUE MORE TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT THAN FROM THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT.

PHILIP PEARCE: LET'S MOVE ON.

JOE CIRILLO [BOARD MEMBER]: MR. MAYOR, ONE QUESTION. I'M JOE CIRILLO, PUBLIC MEMBER FROM RHODE ISLAND. WE HAVE A NUMBER OF BEACHES AS WELL. BUT WOULD YOU THINK THAT WITH THE GUIDELINES THAT WE HAVE, THAT MAYBE THERE SHOULD BE A WAY OF CULLING OUT CERTAIN BEACHES THAT NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO, WOULD BE INACCESSIBLE OR INACCESSIBLE FOR MOST OF THE TIME, LET'S PUT IT THAT WAY, I'M THINKING OF MY NEIGHBOR HERE FROM MAINE. THERE ARE MANY ROCKY BEACHES THAT NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO YOU ARE CONSTANTLY FIGHTING THE ELEMENTS. AND I WOULD THINK THAT IT WOULD BE A BETTER IDEA TO SAY OKAY, 80 MILES WIDTH OF BEACH THERE IS ONLY ABOUT 20 THAT IS EVEN FEASIBLE IN AND IT WOULD BE A REVIEWING AUTHORITY OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

HARRY SIMMONS: THAT MAKES SENSE TO ME THAT IS A COMMON SENSE APPROACH TO THIS KIND OF ISSUE. WE HAVE THE SAME DISCUSSION WHEN WE TALK ABOUT WHERE PEOPLE SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO REBUILD AFTER A STORM. SOME PLACES MAYBE THEY SHOULDN'T BE ALLOWED TO REBUILD AFTER A STORM BECAUSE YOU WILL NEVER MAKE IT SAFE, OR YOU WILL NEVER MAKE IT SUSTAINABLE. AND I THINK YOU KNOW, ONE BIG CONCERN THAT A LOT OF US TOWNS HAVE ABOUT BUILDING LARGER WOODEN STRUCTURES FOR ACCESS, IS THAT WHEN THE STORM COMES IT JUST BECOMES DEBRIS, MORE DEBRIS, SO IF WE CAN FIND A WAY I LOVE THE MOBIMAT IDEA I REALLY DO I THINK IT HAS A LOT OF PROMISE, AND I HOPE YOU WILL WRITE RULES THAT MAKE MOBI MATS EASY TO USE. BUT CHECK LATER, RIGHT. OKAY. (LAUGHTER.)

HARRY SIMMONS: BUT I TRULY BELIEVE THAT WE, ON THE COAST, ARE COMMITTED TO PROVIDING THE ACCESS. I THINK IT'S THE DETAILS, THE DEVIL IS IN THE DETAILS.

PHILIP PEARCE: AND I HAVE GOT ONE MORE QUESTION FOR YOU JUST A REAL BRIEF ONE. YOU TALKED ABOUT THE VEHICLES HAVING ACCESS AND DRIVING OVER THE TEMPORARY. IS THERE A CONSIDERATION THAT POSSIBLY THERE COULD BE A PORTION OF IT THAT WOULD BE A PERMANENT, A MORE PERMANENT PORTION THAT ALLOWS IT IS VEHICLES TO DRIVE OVER.

HARRY SIMMONS: LIKE A PAD OR SOMETHING.

PHILIP PEARCE: THAT WOULD KEEP THEM FROM HAVING TO DRIVE OVER THE TEMPORARY ONE LIKE YOU SAID.

HARRY SIMMONS: I SUPPOSE THAT IS POSSIBLE BUT RIGHT NOW IN FLORIDA THEY DON'T ALLOW THE MATS THERE 6 MONTHS OUT OF THE YEAR BECAUSE IT IMPEDES TURTLES. SO I DON'T THINK THEY WOULD BE GOING TO ALLOW A PERMANENT MAT ON THE BEACH CONCRETE OR WHATEVER FOR THE 6 MONTHS AND IT IS THE 6 MONTHS WHEN PEOPLE LIKE TO GO TO THE BEACH BECAUSE IT IS WARM, SO I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER TO YOUR -- IT RAISES A GOOD POINT BUT I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER, I THINK REALISTICALLY, IF WE CAN FIND WAYS TO LOOK AT THIS, NOT SO MUCH IN A CASE-BY-CASE BASIS BUT AT LEAST IN A BROAD KIND OF WAY, AND THINK ABOUT WHAT MIGHT WORK IN MAINE MAY NOT WORK IN SOUTH CAROLINA. WHAT MIGHT WORK IN FLORIDA MAY NOT WORK IN RHODE ISLAND, ONE SIZE MAY NOT FIT ALL HERE. THEN WE PROBABLY WILL COME UP WITH SOMETHING THAT IS VERY WORKABLE.

PHILIP PEARCE: GOOD, THANK YOU. THANK YOU. MAYOR. DAVE PARK DID YOU HAVE A QUESTION?

DAVID PARK [DEPARTMENT OF INTERIOR LIAISON TO THE BOARD]: YES, JUST A COMMENT AND THEN A QUESTION. HAVING SERVED ON THE REGULATORY NEGOTIATING COMMITTEE AND ACTUALLY BEEN ON THE SUBCOMMITTEE DEALING WITH BEACH ACCESS, I DO KNOW THAT THIS WAS NOT AN EASY ISSUE, AND THAT ISSUE OF DRAWING THE LINE AT THE HIGH WATER MARK WAS AFTER A LOT OF DISCUSSION ON THAT. AND I GUESS THE QUESTION THAT I WOULD GET TO, WOULD BE YOU ARE SUBMITTING WRITTEN COMMENTS AND SOME OF THE TECHNICAL EXPERTS THAT YOU CONSULTED, WITH IN ORDER TO GIVE THIS TESTIMONY, I WOULD HOPE BECAUSE YOU HAVE GIVEN INDICATION THAT YOU ARE NOT AGAINST ACCESS ON THE BEACH. IT IS A QUESTION OF HOW YOU DO IT. I THINK WE ARE ALL LOOKING FOR SOME OF THOSE SUGGESTIONS. IF WHAT IS IN THAT GUIDELINE DOESN'T WORK, THEN WHAT WOULD YOUR EXPERTS SUGGEST THAT WOULD WORK, AND WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE THOSE THINGS.

HARRY SIMMONS: I HAVE ACTUALLY HAD ONE COMMENTER SAY TO ME, WE PROVIDE ACCESS TO THE SAND. THAT IS WHERE OUR WALKWAYS END. WHY SHOULD WE PROVIDE ANY MORE ACCESS TO DISABLED FOLKS THAN JUST TO THE SAND BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT WE PROVIDE TO EVERYBODY ELSE. SO I MEAN, I THINK YOU HAVE GOT THAT KIND OF THOUGHT OUT THERE TOO. I SEE IT AS A DIFFERENT SITUATION, BUT THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO FEEL THAT WAY. AND I THINK YOU KNOW, ENGAGE US, WORK WITH US DO WHATEVER YOU CAN BUT WE WILL DO THE BEST WE CAN TO HELP MAKE SOMETHING THAT WORKS HERE.

DAVID PARK: AND THAT WAS CLEARLY THE ISSUE COMMITTEE DEALT WITH, JUST LIKE GET TO GO THE EDGE OF THE SAND WAS NOT ENOUGH. THAT REALLY WAS NOT BEACH ACCESS THAT PEOPLE WANT TO GET OUT ON THE BEACH AND WANT TO GET INTO THE WATER AND GET OUT WITH THEIR FAMILY AND FINDING A WAY TO GET THERE IS WHAT WE WERE TRYING TO DO, SO AGAIN WE WERE JUST --
HARRY SIMMONS: I THINK THE MOBI MAT MIGHT BE THE ANSWER WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THAT IN MYRTLE BEACH WHERE YOU HAVE A STAFF OF WHO KNOWS HOW MANY PUBLIC WORKS PEOPLE COMPARED TO MY TOWN OF 478 PEOPLE WHERE I HAVE ONE PUBLIC WORKS GUY, I'M GOING TO SEND HIM DOWN THERE TWICE A DAY TO ROLL THE MAT OUT OR 5 MATS OUT HOW EVER MANY WE END UP HAVING. I THINK THAT IS A BIT OF A BURDEN ON A TOWN THAT MAY NOT HAVE THAT MANY USERS OF THE MAT.

WHEREAS A PLACE WITH A HIGHER DENSITY MAY HAVE A LOT OF USERS AND IT MAKES A LOT OF SENSE, SO IF WE ARE NOT TRYING TO MAKE ONE SIZE FIT ALL I BELIEVE WE WILL COME TO A MUCH EASIER RESOLUTION HERE.

DAVID PARK: THANK YOU.