Shy has there been excessive white space in the last few "Week in Review" postings? Looks like TSA is trying to push certain topics off the front page.
Also looks like WTMD and baggage x-ray machines was the only security devices needed again this week. Why are taxpayers having to foot the bill for TSA Toys that are apparently just not needed?
October 19, 2012 5:45 PM
Anonymous said...
Job well done TSA. Thank you for Keeping us safe. Do not let the negative media influence you. There are a lot of good officers doing a great job out there.
October 19, 2012 5:47 PM
Anonymous said...
Was the Anchorage event the one that involved the hockey referee? If so, I think there was a huge overreaction and the airline employee needs to be reprimanded.
If you are unfamiliar with the story, an airline employee incorrectly tagged the ref's friend's bag with a tag with the ref's name on it. The employee didn't think this was important. The ref told the airline employee, "What if my friend's bag has a bomb in it?" After that, chaos ensued and the airport was shut down.
It was a poor choice of words, but what if the incorrectly tagged bag had drugs or kiddie porn in it? The TSA isn't looking for drugs but they sure seem to find a lot of them. Anyway, aren't you supposed to follow the TSA's rule of "If you see something, say something"? This ref saw something that was wrong and said something. It may nor have been the best thing to say, but I think he was correct in pointing out the mistake. I know I don't want to have to explain why a bag full of drugs has my name on it.
October 19, 2012 7:50 PM
Anonymous said...
You left out the part about 25 employees being fired and 19 on suspension for severe security lapses including sleeping on the job at the Newark New Jersey airport. I wonder how many other airports could survive any level of scrutiny.
October 19, 2012 8:26 PM
Anonymous said...
I guess the fact that the TSA announced it was firing or suspending over 40 people at Newark airport wasn't worthy of making the weekly post. The TSA is a disgrace to the United States.
October 19, 2012 10:54 PM
Anonymous said...
Another week and more guns. I can't believe that all of these people just 'forget' that they have these guns in their bags. 30 guns and 27 LOADED. Thanks TSA for doing a great job. Please don't listen to the people complaining. How many is that for the year so far?
October 20, 2012 8:25 AM
Anonymous said...
So why do you need the slow, invasive and cancer-causing body scanners again? Nothing you list was found with them.
October 20, 2012 9:04 AM
Anonymous said...
We're still waiting for TSA comments concerning the incident involving a terminally ill passenger at the Seattle airport. It's been weeks and we still haven't been afforded the opportunity to hear TSA's version of what happened. I guess the absence of any TSA comments means the claims by Michelle Dunaj were true and just shows how arrogant TSA is. It must be nice to think you are better than everyone else and don't have to explain or be held accountable for your actions.
October 20, 2012 9:10 AM
Anonymous said...
What is the point of these postings? The TSA found some guns like they do every week. So what? Guns are the most basic thing that security has been trying to keep off of planes for decades. If you can't keep a gun off a plane, how can you possibly keep bombs off of planes?
Nearly thirty years ago, with just metal detectors and bag x-ray machines, airport screeners were finding just as many, or more, guns on passengers as the TSA currently finds. And that was without a nine billion dollar budget, machines that irradiated passengers, and screeners who felt up passengers on their way to the plane.
Back in 1985, screeners were finding around 50 guns per week, more than the numbers reported on this blog, and that was probably with fewer passengers flying then.
So, Mr. Burns, remind me again why the pre-TSA screeners were such a failure?
"...Discovered at Denver – 15 tubes of black powder totaling around eight ounces were discovered after a checked bag "
Checked bag.
Not the AIT scanners.
Not the WBI scanners.
Checked bags.
Far, far away from the passenger.
And lacking anything else that might make that black powder dangerous.
Yeah for you for finding it, but you didn't find anything even remotely dangerous to aviation security.
And you didn't find it with overly expensive equipment. Like expensive scanners that are easily fooled.
October 20, 2012 4:45 PM
BS said...
"...Anonymous said... Another week and more guns. I can't believe that all of these people just 'forget' that they have these guns in their bags. 30 guns and 27 LOADED...."
Yes...and I'm starting to find this all VERY strange. How many of these are TSA plants, I wonder? I'm sure they are not all plants, but I am having a bit of a problems believing that these things are all being transported by passingers, either on accident or on purpose.
This is all starting to not make any sense, and I'm a bit suspicious........
October 20, 2012 8:57 PM
Anonymous said...
So you find tons of guns. And before you got there? Well, either they they must have found them too or they were never a threat in the first place. So what good does TSA do again?
Bob, for the last few weeks the layout of the Weekly Recap has excessive white space, at least as I see it on my computer. For example for this last post from the picture of the weapons found at Atlanta and Denver down to the listing of all guns found is about 6 inches or so and no content.
Again it could just be my computer but navigating through these posts lately is terribly slow. I don't know if it is Blogger or something else but one of us has a problem.
Lastly, how many times are you going to recycle the same images of guns?
October 21, 2012 10:34 AM
Anonymous said...
30 guns this week. The average find is about 30 guns. Hmmmmm......
If the average find is 30 guns then it is pretty safe to assume there have always been about 30 guns 'in play' as it were. Yet even with 30 guns every week before the TSA, and probably since the TSA, there hasn't been a terrorist attempt.... how could that be? I mean there were 30 guns found last week and yet not one single person was arrested on Terrorism charges.
October 21, 2012 2:23 PM
RP said...
Thank you TSA employees for helping to keep our transportation systems safe. Please ignore all the negative views posted. If those people had lost a loved one on 9-11, they may feel a little differently about the job you all do. You are very much appreciated by many, as the negative posting all seem to come from a selct few, who sound disgruntled.
October 22, 2012 9:44 AM
Anonymous said...
RP said... Thank you TSA employees for helping to keep our transportation systems safe. Please ignore all the negative views posted. If those people had lost a loved one on 9-11, they may feel a little differently about the job you all do. You are very much appreciated by many, as the negative posting all seem to come from a selct few, who sound disgruntled.
October 22, 2012 9:44 AM
Do not dishonor those who lost their lives on 9/11 by asserting no one who disagrees with TSA's invasive tactics don't care about them.
3000 people didn't die on 9/11 for Americans to give up their freedoms.
Also, what would the average flyer have to be "disgruntled" about if the TSA is oh-so-wonderful?
Anonymous said... "Another week and more guns. I can't believe that all of these people just 'forget' that they have these guns in their bags. 30 guns and 27 LOADED. Thanks TSA for doing a great job. Please don't listen to the people complaining. How many is that for the year so far?"
So, 30 guns found (which would have been found pre-TSA, by the way), means that ~70 flew. Yet no terrorist attacks. How is that a good job again?
October 22, 2012 2:17 PM
Sandra said...
The silence on the recent stories about the TSA's mistreatment of passengers, firings and reassignments is deafening - and extremely revealing.
October 22, 2012 3:37 PM
Anonymous said...
@SB: Back in 1985, screeners were finding around 50 guns per week, more than the numbers reported on this blog, and that was probably with fewer passengers flying then.
Given the focus on weekly confiscation numbers as a measure of TSA effectiveness, I have long wondered whether the government had any statistics comparing those numbers with pre-TSA performance metrics. If the government has such a comparison, it's probably classified or SSI, "for reasons of National Security."
It seems that Google are able to provide what the government can not and/or will not. And what Google shows is not surprising at all.
There's no doubt that TSA security is considerably costlier than what we had at airports before 9/11. That higher cost is not only in dollars, but in convenience, liberty, privacy, and even bodily integrity (strip search scanners and pat downs). And that does not even include the intangible cost of creating a Frankenstein monster agency that places itself above the law that governs the rest of the country, and believes that protecting America requires the systematic destruction of what makes America uniquely worth defending.
There is also no doubt about the TSA's arrogance, and especially of the contempt they have for the public. They have empowered themselves to wage war on the public they purport to be protecting, and to treat passengers as enemies in that war.
But there is considerable doubt about whether all these increased costs have bought any improvement in security. The numbers Google found in the 1985 newspaper only strengthen that doubt.
October 22, 2012 6:46 PM
Anonymous said...
TSA pulls NIMs (Nude Imaging Machines) from NY airports. After having found nothing that posed a threat to an aircraft and could not have been caught by a simple metal detector, I guess you've finally realized what everyone else already knew. These machines are completely unnecessary.
"Job well done TSA. Thank you for Keeping us safe. Do not let the negative media influence you. There are a lot of good officers doing a great job out there. "
Oh, good to hear! Can you provide any evidence?
October 22, 2012 10:50 PM
Anonymous said...
"Thank you TSA employees for helping to keep our transportation systems safe. Please ignore all the negative views posted. If those people had lost a loved one on 9-11, they may feel a little differently about the job you all do. You are very much appreciated by many, as the negative posting all seem to come from a selct few, who sound disgruntled."
I lost a loved one on 9/11 in the Pentagon and find the TSA to be an unconsciouable assault on our civil liberties. I know you like your cushy goverment job but we will not put up with your unconstitutional violations. I hope you understand this clearly.
Incidentally, I know dozens - if not hundreds - of others who feel the same way.
October 22, 2012 10:54 PM
@SkyWayManAz said...
Anonymous said...
TSA pulls NIMs (Nude Imaging Machines) from NY airports. After having found nothing that posed a threat to an aircraft and could not have been caught by a simple metal detector, I guess you've finally realized what everyone else already knew. These machines are completely unnecessary.
I wish that really was what was happening but no not really. Seems the real story is those machines are older and slower. They're being replaced with newer faster ones and old ones are going to smaller airports that don't have them. Sadly TSA is doing everything it can to justify continued use of what could be dangerous technology with questionable benefit. The millimeter wave scanner produces the same result. There is a lot less concern that could be dangerous. Anyone worried about that should not use a cell phone since that is the exact same type of exposure you would get.
October 23, 2012 6:25 AM
Anonymous said...
I see that the backscatter scanners are being removed from larger airports and relocated to smaller airports. They are being replaced with the MMW scanners. The main reason that has been given is that the MMW machines are faster. They don't seem faster to me. How much faster are they? Can you provide actual numbers?
How much is it costing taxpayers to change out these scanners? It seems like a gigantic waste of money. Is it costing more than the puffer machines that are no longer in use? It seems like the TSA wasted a lot of money installing these scanners only to remove them a couple of years later. Can the TSA provide dollar amounts for the scanner replacements?
October 23, 2012 11:06 AM
Anonymous said...
Hey Bob, ever think of using this space to post about the number of terrorists TSA agents capture per week? Oh, wait.
October 23, 2012 12:58 PM
Anonymous said...
On TSA's home page where it says "When I fly, can I bring my. . . ," I typed in "Constitutional Rights" and it gave me this result: ITEM NOT FOUND.
I won't fly anymore. I refuse to toss my constitutional rights into the trash can at the checkpoint along with everyone's water bottles and soda cans.
October 23, 2012 8:57 PM
[Image]
Black Powder Discovered
at Denver – 15 tubes of black powder totaling around
eight ounces were discovered after a checked bag alarmed for explosives at
Denver (DEN). Inert Grenades Etc. –
We continue to find inert hand grenades and
other weaponry on weekly basis. Please keep in mind that if an item looks like a realistic bomb, grenade, mine, etc., it is prohibited - real or
not. When these items are found at a checkpoint or in checked baggage, they can cause significant delays. I know
they are cool novelty items, but it is best not to take them on a plane. Read
here
and here on
why inert items cause problems.
An inert fuse igniter
was discovered at Denver (DEN).
[Image]
Items in the Strangest
Places –It’s important to check your bags prior to
traveling. If a prohibited item is discovered in your bag, you could be cited
and possibly arrested by local law enforcement. Here are a few examples from
this week where prohibited items were found in strange places.
After going through a bag
that alarmed in Columbus (CMH), an officer found a hairbrush with a 4 inch
dagger attached to the handle concealed behind the lining of the bag.
[Image]
What Not to Say at an
Airport – Statements like these not only delay the people who
said them but can also inconvenience many other
passengers if the checkpoint or terminal has to be evacuated:
A passenger at
Anchorage (ANC) stated that he had a bomb in his checked bag. Because the claim
had to be investigated by law enforcement, the bag was pulled and the airport
was closed for two hours and 20 minutes. The claim turned out to be
false, and the passengers on the flight were delayed in taking off.
Stun
Guns – Two
stun guns were discovered in carry-on bags at checkpoints around the nation:
Salt Lake City (SLC), Newark (EWR)
Miscellaneous
Prohibited Items - In addition to all of the other
prohibited items we find weekly, our Officers also regularly find firearm
components, realistic replica firearms, bb and pellet guns, Airsoft guns, brass
knuckles, ammunition, batons, and a lot of sharp pointy things -- to mention
a few…
Firearms - Here
are pictures of some of the firearms our Officers found in carry-on baggage
since I posted last Friday. See a complete list below.
[Image]
[Image]
[Image]
[Image]
[Image]
[Image]
You can travel with
your firearms in checked baggage, but they must first be declared to the
airline.You
can go here for more details on how to properly travel with your firearms.
Firearm possession laws vary by state and locality. Travelers should familiarize
themselves with state and local firearm laws for each point of travel prior to
departure.
Unfortunately these
sorts of occurrences are all too frequent which is why we talk about these
finds. Sure, it’s great to share the things that our officers are finding, but
at the same time, each time we find a dangerous item, the throughput is slowed
down and a passenger that likely had no ill intent ends up with a citation or
in some cases is even arrested. This is a friendly reminder to please leave
these items at home. Just because we find a prohibited item on an individual
does not mean they had bad intentions, that's for the law enforcement officer
to decide. In many cases, people simply forgot they had these items.
Bob BurnsTSA
Blog Team If you have a travel
related issue or question that needs an immediate answer, you can contact us by
clicking here.
posted by Bob Burns (TSA Blog Team) at 4:45 PM on Oct 19, 2012
"TSA Week in Review: 15 Tubes of Black Powder Discovered at Denver"
28 Comments -
Shy has there been excessive white space in the last few "Week in Review" postings? Looks like TSA is trying to push certain topics off the front page.
Also looks like WTMD and baggage x-ray machines was the only security devices needed again this week. Why are taxpayers having to foot the bill for TSA Toys that are apparently just not needed?
October 19, 2012 5:45 PM
Job well done TSA. Thank you for Keeping us safe. Do not let the negative media influence you. There are a lot of good officers doing a great job out there.
October 19, 2012 5:47 PM
Was the Anchorage event the one that involved the hockey referee? If so, I think there was a huge overreaction and the airline employee needs to be reprimanded.
If you are unfamiliar with the story, an airline employee incorrectly tagged the ref's friend's bag with a tag with the ref's name on it. The employee didn't think this was important. The ref told the airline employee, "What if my friend's bag has a bomb in it?" After that, chaos ensued and the airport was shut down.
It was a poor choice of words, but what if the incorrectly tagged bag had drugs or kiddie porn in it? The TSA isn't looking for drugs but they sure seem to find a lot of them. Anyway, aren't you supposed to follow the TSA's rule of "If you see something, say something"? This ref saw something that was wrong and said something. It may nor have been the best thing to say, but I think he was correct in pointing out the mistake. I know I don't want to have to explain why a bag full of drugs has my name on it.
October 19, 2012 7:50 PM
You left out the part about 25 employees being fired and 19 on suspension for severe security lapses including sleeping on the job at the Newark New Jersey airport. I wonder how many other airports could survive any level of scrutiny.
October 19, 2012 8:26 PM
I guess the fact that the TSA announced it was firing or suspending over 40 people at Newark airport wasn't worthy of making the weekly post. The TSA is a disgrace to the United States.
October 19, 2012 10:54 PM
Another week and more guns. I can't believe that all of these people just 'forget' that they have these guns in their bags. 30 guns and 27 LOADED. Thanks TSA for doing a great job. Please don't listen to the people complaining. How many is that for the year so far?
October 20, 2012 8:25 AM
So why do you need the slow, invasive and cancer-causing body scanners again? Nothing you list was found with them.
October 20, 2012 9:04 AM
We're still waiting for TSA comments concerning the incident involving a terminally ill passenger at the Seattle airport. It's been weeks and we still haven't been afforded the opportunity to hear TSA's version of what happened. I guess the absence of any TSA comments means the claims by Michelle Dunaj were true and just shows how arrogant TSA is. It must be nice to think you are better than everyone else and don't have to explain or be held accountable for your actions.
October 20, 2012 9:10 AM
What is the point of these postings? The TSA found some guns like they do every week. So what? Guns are the most basic thing that security has been trying to keep off of planes for decades. If you can't keep a gun off a plane, how can you possibly keep bombs off of planes?
October 20, 2012 10:08 AM
Bob, you go to all the trouble to do this weekly recap but seems you always leave important things out.
Why did you not mention the going ons at Lindberg Field?
FSD resigns, senior employeees transfered, others fired.
Sure seems worthy of a mention here on the weekly TSA recap.
Trying to hide the ongoing corruption that is the norm for TSA?
October 20, 2012 10:55 AM
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=57UzAAAAIBAJ&sjid=oTIHAAAAIBAJ&pg=4844,6538112
Nearly thirty years ago, with just metal detectors and bag x-ray machines, airport screeners were finding just as many, or more, guns on passengers as the TSA currently finds. And that was without a nine billion dollar budget, machines that irradiated passengers, and screeners who felt up passengers on their way to the plane.
Back in 1985, screeners were finding around 50 guns per week, more than the numbers reported on this blog, and that was probably with fewer passengers flying then.
So, Mr. Burns, remind me again why the pre-TSA screeners were such a failure?
[Screenshot captured.]
October 20, 2012 1:08 PM
"...Discovered at Denver – 15 tubes of black powder totaling around eight ounces were discovered after a checked bag "
Checked bag.
Not the AIT scanners.
Not the WBI scanners.
Checked bags.
Far, far away from the passenger.
And lacking anything else that might make that black powder dangerous.
Yeah for you for finding it, but you didn't find anything even remotely dangerous to aviation security.
And you didn't find it with overly expensive equipment. Like expensive scanners that are easily fooled.
October 20, 2012 4:45 PM
"...Anonymous said...
Another week and more guns. I can't believe that all of these people just 'forget' that they have these guns in their bags. 30 guns and 27 LOADED...."
Yes...and I'm starting to find this all VERY strange. How many of these are TSA plants, I wonder? I'm sure they are not all plants, but I am having a bit of a problems believing that these things are all being transported by passingers, either on accident or on purpose.
This is all starting to not make any sense, and I'm a bit suspicious........
October 20, 2012 8:57 PM
So you find tons of guns. And before you got there? Well, either they they must have found them too or they were never a threat in the first place. So what good does TSA do again?
October 20, 2012 10:54 PM
Bob, for the last few weeks the layout of the Weekly Recap has excessive white space, at least as I see it on my computer. For example for this last post from the picture of the weapons found at Atlanta and Denver down to the listing of all guns found is about 6 inches or so and no content.
Again it could just be my computer but navigating through these posts lately is terribly slow. I don't know if it is Blogger or something else but one of us has a problem.
Lastly, how many times are you going to recycle the same images of guns?
October 21, 2012 10:34 AM
30 guns this week. The average find is about 30 guns. Hmmmmm......
If the average find is 30 guns then it is pretty safe to assume there have always been about 30 guns 'in play' as it were. Yet even with 30 guns every week before the TSA, and probably since the TSA, there hasn't been a terrorist attempt.... how could that be? I mean there were 30 guns found last week and yet not one single person was arrested on Terrorism charges.
October 21, 2012 2:23 PM
Thank you TSA employees for helping to keep our transportation systems safe. Please ignore all the negative views posted. If those people had lost a loved one on 9-11, they may feel a little differently about the job you all do. You are very much appreciated by many, as the negative posting all seem to come from a selct few, who sound disgruntled.
October 22, 2012 9:44 AM
RP said...
Thank you TSA employees for helping to keep our transportation systems safe. Please ignore all the negative views posted. If those people had lost a loved one on 9-11, they may feel a little differently about the job you all do. You are very much appreciated by many, as the negative posting all seem to come from a selct few, who sound disgruntled.
October 22, 2012 9:44 AM
Do not dishonor those who lost their lives on 9/11 by asserting no one who disagrees with TSA's invasive tactics don't care about them.
3000 people didn't die on 9/11 for Americans to give up their freedoms.
Also, what would the average flyer have to be "disgruntled" about if the TSA is oh-so-wonderful?
October 22, 2012 12:13 PM
Anonymous said...
"Another week and more guns. I can't believe that all of these people just 'forget' that they have these guns in their bags. 30 guns and 27 LOADED. Thanks TSA for doing a great job. Please don't listen to the people complaining. How many is that for the year so far?"
So, 30 guns found (which would have been found pre-TSA, by the way), means that ~70 flew. Yet no terrorist attacks. How is that a good job again?
October 22, 2012 2:17 PM
The silence on the recent stories about the TSA's mistreatment of passengers, firings and reassignments is deafening - and extremely revealing.
October 22, 2012 3:37 PM
@SB: Back in 1985, screeners were finding around 50 guns per week, more than the numbers reported on this blog, and that was probably with fewer passengers flying then.
Given the focus on weekly confiscation numbers as a measure of TSA effectiveness, I have long wondered whether the government had any statistics comparing those numbers with pre-TSA performance metrics. If the government has such a comparison, it's probably classified or SSI, "for reasons of National Security."
It seems that Google are able to provide what the government can not and/or will not. And what Google shows is not surprising at all.
There's no doubt that TSA security is considerably costlier than what we had at airports before 9/11. That higher cost is not only in dollars, but in convenience, liberty, privacy, and even bodily integrity (strip search scanners and pat downs). And that does not even include the intangible cost of creating a Frankenstein monster agency that places itself above the law that governs the rest of the country, and believes that protecting America requires the systematic destruction of what makes America uniquely worth defending.
There is also no doubt about the TSA's arrogance, and especially of the contempt they have for the public. They have empowered themselves to wage war on the public they purport to be protecting, and to treat passengers as enemies in that war.
But there is considerable doubt about whether all these increased costs have bought any improvement in security. The numbers Google found in the 1985 newspaper only strengthen that doubt.
October 22, 2012 6:46 PM
TSA pulls NIMs (Nude Imaging Machines) from NY airports. After having found nothing that posed a threat to an aircraft and could not have been caught by a simple metal detector, I guess you've finally realized what everyone else already knew. These machines are completely unnecessary.
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/10/22/tsa-pulls-use-of-controversial-full-body-scanners-at-jfk-laguardia-airports/
October 22, 2012 7:28 PM
"Job well done TSA. Thank you for Keeping us safe. Do not let the negative media influence you. There are a lot of good officers doing a great job out there. "
Oh, good to hear! Can you provide any evidence?
October 22, 2012 10:50 PM
"Thank you TSA employees for helping to keep our transportation systems safe. Please ignore all the negative views posted. If those people had lost a loved one on 9-11, they may feel a little differently about the job you all do. You are very much appreciated by many, as the negative posting all seem to come from a selct few, who sound disgruntled."
I lost a loved one on 9/11 in the Pentagon and find the TSA to be an unconsciouable assault on our civil liberties. I know you like your cushy goverment job but we will not put up with your unconstitutional violations. I hope you understand this clearly.
Incidentally, I know dozens - if not hundreds - of others who feel the same way.
October 22, 2012 10:54 PM
Anonymous said...
TSA pulls NIMs (Nude Imaging Machines) from NY airports. After having found nothing that posed a threat to an aircraft and could not have been caught by a simple metal detector, I guess you've finally realized what everyone else already knew. These machines are completely unnecessary.
I wish that really was what was happening but no not really. Seems the real story is those machines are older and slower. They're being replaced with newer faster ones and old ones are going to smaller airports that don't have them. Sadly TSA is doing everything it can to justify continued use of what could be dangerous technology with questionable benefit. The millimeter wave scanner produces the same result. There is a lot less concern that could be dangerous. Anyone worried about that should not use a cell phone since that is the exact same type of exposure you would get.
October 23, 2012 6:25 AM
I see that the backscatter scanners are being removed from larger airports and relocated to smaller airports. They are being replaced with the MMW scanners. The main reason that has been given is that the MMW machines are faster. They don't seem faster to me. How much faster are they? Can you provide actual numbers?
How much is it costing taxpayers to change out these scanners? It seems like a gigantic waste of money. Is it costing more than the puffer machines that are no longer in use? It seems like the TSA wasted a lot of money installing these scanners only to remove them a couple of years later. Can the TSA provide dollar amounts for the scanner replacements?
October 23, 2012 11:06 AM
Hey Bob, ever think of using this space to post about the number of terrorists TSA agents capture per week? Oh, wait.
October 23, 2012 12:58 PM
On TSA's home page where it says "When I fly, can I bring my. . . ," I typed in "Constitutional Rights" and it gave me this result: ITEM NOT FOUND.
I won't fly anymore. I refuse to toss my constitutional rights into the trash can at the checkpoint along with everyone's water bottles and soda cans.
October 23, 2012 8:57 PM